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Just wondering whether or not folks were concerned about the high DKP totals some raiders have. Like Wedndaen is over 100, a handful of us are in the 30s and 40s, several more are 20+, etc........
Just wondering - yes or no - is this a problem? Not looking for suggestions or solutions here - I am just curious if folks think there is a problem that we need to address.
I saw something Culd posted just before he disappeared for the last couple of weeks that was a good response and I believe he used me as an example. I've been one of the ones that have researched what I wanted and what I could wait on and scrimped and saved to finally get to a respectable DKP tier. I'm not a squad leader, nothing has been done to inflate my points and I'm not in a large uber raiding guild; my dkp reflects my attendance. I know that those above me have done the same and I don't begrudge anyone having put in their time. Look at how many raids Wen has attended to get there. So imo, No, no problem.
I also agree if you attend and dont spend then yuo have earned it. I do however think that we should not just abandon areas that give relatively good loot so that those with high tiers that have gained all that they can get from a particular area. i.e. Time. and then move on never to return. I like going for Anguish, but i also like getting peeps thier epic 1.5s or 2.0s or DON progression.
You earned it; it's yours; spend it when and how you want.
I do have a general question, are the points awarded vs loot values supposed to be roughly geared to balance out? Seems that for a target that gives 3 items, worth 5 dkp each, and 40 raiders earning 0.5-0.6 dkp, the system is balanced only if the items are raised in value (15 dkp cashed in vs 20-24 awarded) If the same target was awarded 0.3-0.4 dkp per raider, the balance is restored. This ignores bonus points for first kills, of course. My point is that if the system is unbalanced, overall, with more points awarded than cashed in, in time, people will have inflated dkp balances (especially those with greater attendence). This should be somewhat self-correcting as people with fat balances bid up items and begin to restore the balance.
I'm not saying that the system should or should not be balanced. I'm just curious what the guiding principles are for setting award values for different targets
I do however think that we should not just abandon areas that give relatively good loot so that those with high tiers that have gained all that they can get from a particular area. i.e. Time. and then move on never to return
Actually, we are quite happy to do TIME. In fact, the only reason we stopped is those that needed the loot the most weren't showing up in force. Last TIME raid we did we only had around 30 folks show for it and the majority of the force was the folks that nearly always show for every raid anyway (namely the DKP leaders who for the most part didn't need TIME loot). Soooo we stopped due to what appeared to be lack of interest.
We would be Happy to do TIME on a regular basis again as long as there is enough interest. I think Olidan is planning to "test the waters" with a TIME raid sometime after Thanksgiving. If 35+ folks show we will start doing it on a regular basis again. If 25+ show well.........
Bottom line is people vote with their attendance. We do the raids that draw the most interest.
As a practical matter the DKP leaders desperately want the lower tiers to get loot. Its in our best interest. The greater the average level of gear in AH the bigger and better raids we can attempt. Sooo in a strange sorta way the DKP leaders who don't need TIME loot are the ones who cheer the loudest when we do a successful TIME raid with lots of loot drops.
The only problem I had with our DKP system was when points weren't awarded for failed attempts on new encounters (T`Shara comes to mind). This seems to have been fixed though:
The only problem I had with our DKP system was when points weren't awarded for failed attempts
That was also my concern, but I'm glad to see that it has been fixed. Giving points for a failed (but good) effort is an encouragement to come back and try it again.
I'm also glad to see that Olidan wants to go back to Time. If the excursions are for the purpose of testing the waters, I would like to suggest testing on different days to see if that makes a difference.
one thing that i have encountered from a Raiding guild a while back was that if items were better meant for one class then it would be preferred to that class first ( mebers) then open to all if none want. im still trying to re adjust to DKP as i havent been in that guild in about 3 years mabye. but i think that AH DKP system is Fair , you raid you get credit and eventually items. Its pretty simple , raid > bank points> get item you can use. and works best if you try to plan out what to buy as mentioned above somewhere
Example on itmes oing to classes that could use it ....
Ton Po's Mystical pouch from rallos .... it would be more suited for rogues / monks first as they both use fairly frequently ( pulling ( monks) / possibly best throwing item for ranged dps for rogue's for a few expansions)
The only problem I had with our DKP system was when points weren't awarded for failed attempts
That was also my concern, but I'm glad to see that it has been fixed. Giving points for a failed (but good) effort is an encouragement to come back and try it again.
I'm also glad to see that Olidan wants to go back to Time. If the excursions are for the purpose of testing the waters, I would like to suggest testing on different days to see if that makes a difference.
I don't want to point any fingers here, and I'm certainly not trying to be rude to anyone, but dkp isn't a reward--the loot is the reward. DKP is merely the way to attempt to fairly distribute loot--NOT the reward itself.
Motivation for attempting new encounters in my humble opinion should not be "are we getting dkp anyway", but should be "did we learn how to properly fight this fight so we can get it's loot in the future".
As soon as we start consistently awarding dkp into the system without outlets for dkp, we will get the inflation vdaen mentions above. True, our bidding system helps to alleviate inflation, but there is nothing more demoralizing than dkp inflation, and in the 7+ dkp raiding organizations I've been in over the years, every single one that awarded dkp for either time sinks or failures wound up having to wipe all dkp in the end and start again.
For what it's worth, it's like any real economy...if you simply start printing money without taking into account outlets for the money (or for you macroeconomists out there, increasing m1 for no reason), you will ultimately cause serious issues down the road.
Ok, Ok - being equipment analysis challenged (mostly because I'd rather play the game then look stuff up!) I will try to take the time this week to update my magelo. Then those of you who have been playing like forever can give me suggestions on what items to wait for in Anguish and what to try to replace now. Then I to can stop spending so much dkp and gain insanely high tiers!
Actually I think it is a bit of a good sign that several of those that come to every raid because they like to raid have very high tiers. To me it means that we seldom hit a mob that drops upgrades for them and that the drops we do get are steadily gearing up folks in the lower tiers. So we get the fun of going after mobs that are a challenge now and can look forward to yet more challenging content as our raid force improves.
I don't want to point any fingers here, and I'm certainly not trying to be rude to anyone, but dkp isn't a reward--the loot is the reward. DKP is merely the way to attempt to fairly distribute loot--NOT the reward itself.
Motivation for attempting new encounters in my humble opinion should not be "are we getting dkp anyway", but should be "did we learn how to properly fight this fight so we can get it's loot in the future".
Personally, I agree with Zen, and the lack of dkp for a failed encounter never discouraged me from coming back. However, those that cannot raid as often because of RL commitments may be encouraged by the additional dkp, especially if we run into a string of failures. If we take into account the fact that we don't have many failures, I believe that the impact on the dkp economy will be negligible. Certainly no more than the "On time" bonus. Another thread discussed the drop in attendance and I just think that this additional dkp could work as an incentive for those that are on the fence.
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So we get the fun of going after mobs that are a challenge now and can look forward to yet more challenging content as our raid force improves. 