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Continue to use Wednesday nights to flag AH members for T8 access
Yes, hell yes! Can we do it 2 nights a week instead of one
23%
[ 12 ]
Yeah sure, why not. I get tiers, dkp and a chance at loot so its all the same.
33%
[ 17 ]
I am impartial to the idea and dont give a rats ass
17%
[ 9 ]
I would rather not, I will help if needed but dont want to do this.
19%
[ 10 ]
Do this and you can kiss my ass goodbye, I wont be there.
5%
[ 3 ]
Total Votes : 51
Author
Message
Zacatac Officer
Joined: Nov 14, 2008 Posts: 1265
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:14 am Post subject:
The facts are:
1. 30 people showing up on Wednesday night can get a lot more done than any other idea we have seen. Telling people to just go LFG in channel on an off night and hope for a group isn't nearly as good.
2. The fact that we have had 5 different missions going at once often means some people can double up on flags. The mission they are in and some other group in a different mission that has an empty flag spot to give away.
3. The more people who get full T8 flags done means more of those flags can be passed out each night. You might end up with people getting 2 or even 3 flags done in just 1 night. I'd guess about about 1/3 of people who help on Wednesday are T8 flagged. In fact we had some extra who went and did a T9 flagging mission last week.
Now some people wanted to just add another night, like Sunday, to do this instead of using a raid night on Wednesday. But that is like asking the salary employee to come in on Saturday (for free), adding another day of work on to the week.
Look, there are some positives to doing the UF Group Flags.
1. Helps members who have trouble getting the groups
2. Loot is good (however, still sub-par compared to SoD Raid)
Honestly, thats all I can think of. Sure its great to get people the flags, but they're still going to have trouble getting groups in UF. Thats the way it is. Theres a lack of interest in the game overall right now, along with a lower server population, means its just harder to find groups.
What is the overall benefit to AH as a raiding force though? People having invisible flags that does not have any bearing on the content we are trying to do? So can somebody please point out to me how this plan of group content is "better for AH as a whole" than doing raid content? Show me the plan of how doing group content for weeks (according to the calender, started in mid-December) is going to help more than if we were doing raid content instead during this whole time. How does it prepare us better? How has it advanced us?
If you look at the overall attendance of group content/flagging, its been going down (apart from a spike on the first "flagging" night). Yet we havn't done anything to advance AH or anything to show for this supposed "progress" and "bettering AH as a whole". Please, show me how doing UF group content for the past 4 months almost has helped. I don't care about individual loot upgrades. We havn't furthered as a raid force at all by doing this. Infact, our calender even shows that we dont try as many targets. By all measuring sticks, it looks like we've regressed by taking a night to do this group content instead of progressing.
I mean look at the raid-o-matic. I know its not 100% accurate (because I've been there for 2 attempts iirc on FoS 3) but some of the numbers are pathetic.
Mindshear: 4
CC: 6
FoS 1: 1
FoS 2: 0
FoS 3: 0
Most of these raids unlock Rk 3 spells for people, along with better loot and foci than UF group. Yet it seems like we are just afraid to try it since we failed. Now look at Rallos, 63 attempts. And how many times did we fail after they "fixed" the event before we got it back on farm status? And why did we try it so hard? Because it has upgrades, yet, all of these other raids also have upgrades and we've given up on them. Most of the raids in tower look like some of these events, just revamped and bumped up in difficulty. So by not doing any of these raids, I don't see how we are helping prepare ourselves for tower. We're not going to walk into Tower and get it on farm like Pallo, especially with the RoV and Fu members that will not be able to help out.
Now, looking at the data available on this website, in the 3-4 months on doing UF group, we have had:
66 loots spread out through 43 people with 6 nights of no loots (1 night officially "flagging). All being sub-par to the stuff we would of got in SoD raid. Now, if we replace the group content wiht 1 (ONE) raid target a night, we would be getting about 48 - 64 loots (NOT INCLUDING RUNES). Thats one target a night in the same time frame as opposed to group content. If we did 2 targets a night, your looking at more and better loot, than doing group content.
Not to mention, arn't people bored of doing the same stuff on the same day every week? As I said, I'd be happy to lead a raid on a Thursday because thats the only day I can do it with 100% certainity, but, thats "our RR farm night" so we can't try anything new on that night. I mean look at the calender, the further back you go, the more varied it gets. We need to get out of this damn rut were stuck in and do more events.
Heres what I find funny about the "majority" argument I'm sure is going to be posted again. The majority of votes are for people who are ok with doing it because they get to save tier... and what are they saving it for? SoD RAID!!! So please, don't tell me the majority wants it because the way I see it (and from what several people have told me), they see UF group content as a way to save tier for the stuff they want from SoD raids. Not to mention, I havn't heard an argument from this majority apart from a couple of AH officers, which is hardly the majority we are trying to help in group content.
If AH leadership really thinks that group content is progressing the raid force, please show me something that proves it. By every measuring stick I can think of and find on the website, it has only hurt progress.
Sing it with me now..."This shit is bananas, b-a-n-a-n-a-s!" _________________ You kick Venomous Projection for 58652 points of damage.
I would be done if somebody could show some proof of how this is HELPING AH instead of useless quotes... _________________ You kick Venomous Projection for 58652 points of damage.
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 1688 Location: San Jose California
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject:
Afterhours Code of Conduct wrote:
We operate by a hierarchy of orders and you will follow the orders given to you regardless of your confidence in them. After Hours is a compassionate organization however and we do actively encourage feedback and constructive criticism. The correct course of action is to suggest an alternative if you feel you have important information, but then surrender the point if it's overruled.
It is time to give this a rest Sendalor. You have been listened to, discussed, voted on and shot down. Get Over It!
Afterhours is an organization with set expectations of our members. If our code of conduct conflicts with your gameplay style, we have a problem. It is time for you to be patient and wait for this to pass like it has so many times in the past. Continually whining about how we aren't doing things your way only serves one purpose, one of disruption. If you want to continue pushing this issue instead of heeding this warning, you will be forcing us officers to take further action. _________________
Now, looking at the data available on this website, in the 3-4 months on doing UF group, we have had:
66 loots spread out through 43 people with 6 nights of no loots (1 night officially "flagging).
Since you don't participate in these nights, you don't quite have your facts straight. There has never been a night with no loot in UF.
1. We did some weeks where it was "open raid", which means everything was random and didn't track it because it doesn't affect tiers. It was used as a recruitment tool, trying to gather some more interest and members.
2. We have recently moved to this progression mission format which is much different than the simple farming we were doing before. All of the loot is from the chests that spawn at the end of missions, so there is no "bidding" to be done by the raid as a whole.
Therefore, we did 7 missions last week, so there was 7 pieces of loot, but nothing tracked. I'm wearing a new neck item from it now.
So instead of another lengthy post on a dead subject, I suggest you spend some time studying what raid you are going to lead. You will need to tell EvC or another officer so it can be put on the calendar.
im sorry i agree with send on this. seems all his points have been valid and have yet to see something in my mind that is valid on the other side of the arguement. but hey thats just me
From: Sendalor
To: elric
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:43 am
Subject: raid
ok, let me finish puting my foot in my mouth and lead a raid here comin up. Ill try leading kith i know we can own it and i think i got a pretty good strat for it. maybe wednesday or thursday i dunno pm me back let me know if u want me to or not. i lead plenty of raids back in the day so it shoouldnt be too bad to jump back into it i just enjoy not having to do all that shit lol
When I'm with the raid, I don't start anything or question anything there cuz its not the place. I've kept to to the forums to argue my point, not "whine". I've made valid points to argue my stance without a valid response imo. I'm not trying to "disrupt" or hurt, I'm just trying to help AH in the long run and I just don't see how this group content is helping. Like I said, show me some proof or something of how its progressing us to tower, but I havn't seen it. I will give it a rest regardless..
All you gotta do is give me a Thursday to lead a raid and whatever makeup/numbers we get ill roll with. Look at the date on that PM. I have more but its besides the point. Posted multiple times in this topic saying I will lead, nothing. I done all I can do on that.
And Zac, as stated, my data is according to the website, so its as accurate as I could of been without having raid dumps/loot lists. _________________ You kick Venomous Projection for 58652 points of damage.
I'm not trying to "disrupt" or hurt, I'm just trying to help AH in the long run and I just don't see how this group content is helping. Like I said, show me some proof or something of how its progressing us to tower, but I havn't seen it.
You act like we would suddenly all be wearing full SoD raid gear and in Tower now if we had just spent those 3 hours a week doing something else. Can you prove it?
You refuse to see any other side of the arguement other than your own. There isn't much else we can do. There is nothing to "prove", it is simply a 25% use of time to help make progress in a different aspect of a game.
We put up a poll, people voted, majority was to continue.
We had 38 people last week. Over 20 of them are not T8 flagged. Because we swapped people in and out for flags, everyone got at least 1 flag and some more than 1 flag in 3 hours.
Tell me how people having a good time, doing flag progression, getting loot, and working together to gain access for AH members to get into T8 and even better loot is a bad thing? And remember, many of them would never get there without this night.
I don't plan to do it forever. Just like last year, we didn't do SoD group massacre forever, but we did do it for awhile and it worked out.
i dont believe the group gear is helping all that much. not all visit the forums even though they probably should, i would say end all this of majority wins by having a vote that would include all involved. do an active vote during a raid night. i would suggest wed but that nights numbers/votes could be skewed due to people just not being interested in wed anymore. so i would suggest a night such as sat and ask in ah chat which would u perfer. an easy way to get these numbers would be to ask everyone to join 2 different channels. so this way your not stuck manually figuring out numbers.
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 1688 Location: San Jose California
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject:
Alright, you dont think we got enough of a sample of votes in a one week poll. Fine, I fix that. The polls are now open and will remain open until it is decided to stop UF group mission flagging.
Now that I have done my part, everyone else can do theirs. Vote, tell everyone else to vote. Remind everyone at raids wednesdays or every night for all I care.
You PROVE to me that this is a bad idea and I am sure that I speak for all officers when I say we will gladly change things. Now here is the rub, I am inclined to keep mission flagging open even longer if the polls show thats what people truly want.
Personally, I don't care anymore. I was doing this for everyone else's sake not my own. All my accounts are T8 and I am fully geared. This whole idea was out of the kindness of my heart to help our members (especially those who needed it most) but to tell you the truth, it only takes a few to make me feel pretty unappreciated at the moment. _________________
Joined: Sep 18, 2007 Posts: 2631 Location: Augusta, WI
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:04 am Post subject:
Aleax, Hasseo, Zac, and the rest of the officer/SL team, you all are doing great
Sendalor, you're up for Thurs night. Pick your target, reseearch it, show up early, and you're RL. You'll be invited into the SL channel, and we'll fully support your lead (task adds, shuffling, etc). _________________
i dont believe the group gear is helping all that much.
A piece of T7 gear has more hp/mana than Queen or Rott raid. If we get 6 pieces of UF gear in a night vs. doing Rott/Queen raid, then the only benefit for the raid is runes.
But that's not the whole story. You guys aren't looking at the bigger picture here.
Getting people T8 flagged means they might possibly get groups in those zones. And even if that doesn't happen, it might mean getting some item that is rotting in a T8 zone that somebody told the AH channel about.
Now you might possiblly get another slot or 2 filled with raid equivalent T8 gear on a Monday or a Tuesday during non-raid times. You would have to do hardmode RR or Korafax to get better.
AH will never have everyone in 100% raid gear, we need people to supplement with group gear. Better geared players have more chance of surviving raids.
This is benefitting AH. People want to do it. And for the immediate future it will continue.
Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 1688 Location: San Jose California
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:26 am Post subject:
If you want more examples of the UF gear, take a look at my eqplayers link ( I haven't been good about updating magelo ). Pretty much everything I am wearing is T8 gear. All visable slots and most non-visable slots. Take a peek and then tell me how T8 gear wont help AH. Wearing nothing more than T8 group gear ONLY, I am ranked 17th in AC for all shadowknights on our server. Not too shabby if you ask me. _________________
If you want more examples of the UF gear, take a look at my eqplayers link ( I haven't been good about updating magelo ). Pretty much everything I am wearing is T8 gear. All visable slots and most non-visable slots. Take a peek and then tell me how T8 gear wont help AH. Wearing nothing more than T8 group gear ONLY, I am ranked 17th in AC for all shadowknights on our server. Not too shabby if you ask me.
I think EQ is a game, AH is a organization inside EQ for raid, but ppl enjoy doing some progression in UF for now, let ppl enjoy and get t8 flagged in few weeks we can do another different stuff on WED, no big deal, it is not forever.
i think we are giving too much importance to this thread. _________________
Joined: Apr 01, 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: West Virginia
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject:
Somebody shoot this damn horse and either lock or delet this thread.
This wed group thing will all be over with in time just like when we did the group content slaughter nights when SoD came out. Let it get out of their system and everyone will get tired of it and we will have lesser toons with better loot that helps us win more SoD raids, just how it is. With lock out from out big named raiders and other conflicts alot of the events mentioned we still cant get down yet.
Of couse this will probably end the day after I get Underfoot on all three acounts, watch. _________________ 85 Ranger|85 Shaman
Plus 85 Cleric
Both my Mage and Enchanter can get into Convortium so I have no need really to do these missions any longer. With the last patch however they added some kind of new currentcy to get items from a merchant AND there are chest drops at the end that can drop loot from that zone.
Waste of time ? Well it is experience for me and perhaps even an item at the end of the mission, but even if I dont get the item because I wont spend tiers on a group item either, the new currency should help to give you something.
The missions are long most times but worth doing. Gear you can get from Convortium is pretty much EQUAL to tower loot. Not quite, but would you pay tiers for 50 hp and mana and perhaps 1 or 2 damage delay off ? I dont know that I would.
It is hard for me to show up Wed nights because of school and I dont see that changing probably for a couple of weeks but I will be there for a mission just to help and perhaps upgrade
Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 110 Location: San Antonio, TX
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject:
The loot on the missions is pretty much group loot rules from what I have seen. Don't think any tiers have been spent on that stuff. If someone doesn't need it, it either goes to rot or if it is tradeable (some are) it can be lotto at the next raid. _________________
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