[Shieara]

Okay anyways.

I'm not sure really where to start here. Last night there was a ton of dying and whatnot. Here are a few comments.

First, piggying I thought was pretty fast and smooth. Thanks to our piggies paying attention and stuff we got them in zone fast.

The offtanking was not so smooth. I saw a LOT of mezz breaks. Needless to say this is bad. You should always start off with non-damage aggro guys, unless you are a warrior and don't have the means. I saw a lot of disorganization among the knights and a lot of mobs that were being offtanked by one knight having aggro taken so a diff knight could tank.

Guys the mezz breaks and disorganization has got to go. RZ it was really smooth but last night it was really suck, not sure what the deal was. It seemed people just weren't focused. We're going to be working on this in the future.

Next, some bad calls were made by the raid leaders. I am myself responsible as well. On the croc I should have specified that everyone needed to bunch together to avoid aggroing the dusty thing (someone backed up and aggroed him...no names being given). Kor should have kept us burning named down instead of killing adds. I am still learning these encounters..have done them a few time but never led before, so next time I will do better.

So that is about it from last night. Honestly, it was a pathetic performance but we can improve (and I include myself in this).

[Kenshiro]

It's pretty obvious we're going to have to tighten up our game - we've mowed through Tier 2 stuff based on being level 70 and the OOW and DoN gear that allows us to overpower mobs. Not so with the Tier 3 raids. Tactics are everything, calling and assisting on mobs is the difference between success and a wipe.

We also need to realize that we will be on a learning curve for these - we will wipe, then Kor and Shieara will tweak our tactics, and we will win. Gonna have to allow for that.[/i]

[Dohi]

the breaking of mez was a large problem last night, was they were being broken by people was there not MT or OT and a few killed me...

one i watched, the tank broke mez and must not have taunted or something cuz right befor it broke i landed a crit heal on Kraem, that mob came and chewed me then killed him(kraem) because he was low hp and i was the only healer healing him, this is another problem heals are going to the wrong targets which is why all the mts died... so now we gotta keep up 4 tanks that arent mts 2 chanters who are being tanking because of 4(this number might not be right but u get the point......) non mt tanks mez breaks, and died.

no heals were going to kraem and there should have been at least 2-3 healers on him 2 were in his group i was 1. i was healing the others were not it seems... what was going on here?

the agro was very loose... i had at one point 6 mobs on me, Kraem when he is engaging being the MT has 4+ mobs on him doing 3-6k dmg in 1 second... when i healed him being the only person healing him for some reason i drew 3 mobs, 2 repopped and killed a necro that was beside me, then proceeded to eat Olidan and me. this was due to repop not tanks faults. but the loose tank control on mezzed mobs needs to be fixed or we will wipe alot more...

this might not be how it all happened but this is how i seen it...

(my posts make no sense alot of the time so i have to edit them...)
_________________
Dohi
Fraylmind

[Ghraa]

Alot of what happened last night is a fuzzy jumble in my head now after waking up this morning but there was one specific instance i would like to address.

The second time we tried the named lots of adds popped and were a bit slowely but steadily being mezzed and locked up by the chanters (hard to target cycle with so many around you). At one point it was called for the adds to be killed. Well there were a few not locked down yet but most that were. I saw several tanks head for a sleeping mob, circle around him, a ranger fired a bow shot, then the tanks all left for another mob.

Guys, take a guess what this mob did then......

Guess how many sleeping mobs woke up while i dealt with it.....

Guess who those then went after.....

Guess what happened after i died.....

I spoke with the ranger btw. Told me assist was called just before the tanks all switched to another mob. Folks this instance, this ONE instance wiped the raid.

Once you have several mobs wake up all in a bundle they are like a steam roller running from one player to another. Once a chanter goes down like that and his "queue" of mobs wakes up, its often insta death for any other chanter that tried to get control. He/she tries to mez one and gets ganked by all the rest. Well, then THEIR queue of mobs all wake up.

I saw the same thing Dohi did last night as well. Lots of tanks with good intentions go for a mob to kill it (at the right time) and yet they smack it and it goes for a healer or a chanter. Over and over and over.

We have been ganking mobs left and right and its been fun. We have been kinda zerging zones and it feels good I admit. Felt that way last night in the beginning. Its been a blast. However now its like Shierra and Dohi mentioned. At this level of the game I and others just can't compensate for zerg tactics with mobs hitting this hard.

In the EPlanes you need to keep one thought in mind at all times. If you wake a mob and it goes for a chanter or a healer then there is a good chance they are gonna die and then you are. If you remind yourself of that every mob then we are gonna own the planes. If not then we are gonna have alot of last nights repeats.

I get the impression that folks might be a bit cocky since most of us are level 70 going for mobs we used to do at 65. Folks in PoE we might have been winning at level 65 but we had 60+ PERSON RAIDS.

Btw, I have had lots of /tells from tanks, rangers, DPS saying that an assist would be called and then that tank would switch. My observation above seems to support that. Last night was a very painful lesson on "how to wipe your friends out in a few easy steps". "Gank the Raid -101" is a course I don't wish to repeat.

[Korinne]

I just wanted to add a couple things to this discussion. First of all, in case anyone is mistake about this...we are NOT yelling or coming down on anyone or any group of someone's. What is unique about us is that we have only been together a few months (since Apr 1) for most of us and we are relearning each other. In addition, Shi and I are learning and relearning the events as Dbyx and Bax were around when we were doing EPs. Yes I led us to victory on the dust ring not too long ago but there were a few key differences. Dannes was there and he knows EXACTLY how to pull that, I am not a puller and while I know where the mobs are....its hard to communicate to a puller how to pull without actually being there. In addition, it wasn't me leading that was the key to victory...it was having a core of extremely seasoned veterans and things just came together.

About last night....

Yes I should have kept us burning on the perfected and at least we would have won .....however in the beginning as I told you ...we inadvertantly triggered two of the same ring becausing of a pulling miscommunication. So now instead of knowing when we were about to kill the last devotee...we had 40 others on track and no clue. So with 5 more mobs in camp all the sudden we had 6 triumverates tearing their way thru us and then when they were dead (by some miracle) the perfected X2 owned what was left of our raid force. Those were the contributing factors that led to our having the issues with OT vs Mezzing and mez breaks and it just went down hill from there.

The RZ/Menlo/Bonecracker raids went so well I couldn't have asked for better and then I just think that it was a combination of things that contributed to our mass carnage last night...to include our over confidence.

Well we got our asses handed to us, and it wasn't pleasant so I say ...we tighten up a bit (bear with us bossy RL types) and regroup and kick some old fashion EP booty!
_________________
It takes talent to lose oneself. Now where was I?

Korinne Neverfound, Lost Druid of Norrath

[Edgez]

Here was an instance where "what can go wrong", did go wrong. No single person is to blame, so don't think anyone is pointing at you. We made mistakes, all of us. The best we can do is learn from them and not repeat them.

Its funny how from our worst mistakes we make our greatest improvements.
_________________
"Your life is yours alone. Rise up and live it."
- Richard Rahl

[Culdahl]

Hmm, second post pointing at knights as one of the main problems. I think, for the sake of all of the knights (and to help us learn), names need to be called even if it is my own because I, honestly, am not seeing what everyone else is seeing. I think, for the most part, the knights did a very good job last night. If I was on a mob and mog/trib/celt saw I was on it they backed off and assisted MA or grabbed a different add (yay, for HoTT) and I can't once recall a knight breaking a mezz and having the mob run towards a caster. What I did see were other classes (DPS and such) assisting the OTs rather then the MA....A knight can easily lock down aggro before breaking a mezz and the only viable reason for a mob to turn and run at a caster is if someone else assists before a tank breaks the mezz (just because an OT is standing in front of a mob and casting doesn't mean it's time to assist, nor should anyone have been assisting the OTs in the first place).

I don't mean to sound rude or anything or to place blame on anyone else, but, in this case, OTing was both called for by RL and was neccessary given the large amount of adds that the CC had to deal with (at one point on first wipe I counted 3 invis'd nameds and 6 adds and on the second wipe there were 10+ adds along with the named). Also, I payed close attention to the HoTT and I never once saw a tank steal aggro from the MA (though I saw several other classes take it regularly and a couple people in particular that did it quite often).

Posts like this aren't very helpful IMO. It does no good to generalize any one class or group of people...it merely leads to people getting frustrated at others and, inevitably, hurt feelings. I can't speak for the other tanks, but, given recent comments, I found myself being afraid to grab aggro or do my job last night for fear that someone will get upset over it and I find myself even more reluctant to do that job in the future. If there is an issue with someone then let a SL or RL send that person a tell to see what the issue is and try to correct it in the future, but please don't blame all knights, CC, healers, etc. cause one or two of them made a mistake.

And the long winded rant ends......

Culdahl

P.S. - People seem to blame tanks without really knowing the class...On a guild alliance raid today I got aggro and died quite quickly (a few seconds on fire named) as did two other tanks. The first response was "You tanks need to learn to control aggro and do your jobs right"....what this person failed to realize was that the MA had pulled the mob up a wall and was no longer able to hit it and a few of us were up on the hill and were able to target it, hence we flew up the hate list and got aggro. Now, if an SK wielding a 1hs pulls aggro from a warrior 30% into a fight then it should painfully obvious that something else was going on (when i lost the first 50% I figured I got a riposte or two and some AoE dmg [mob had a 2K AoE], by the time I started casting my life tap to get some health back I was dead). Despite voicing my concerns, they continued to pull the mobs in the corner and several others died because of it.

[Shieara]

Alright lets just calm down and try to break this down into facts. Keeping in mind that the only mezz breakers should have been Mog and Krae. Here are all the other mezz breaks from the raid up to the second wipe. Statistics to follow.

[Sat Jun 25 22:41:41 2005] A Miniature Dustrunner has been awakened by Shieara.
[Sat Jun 25 22:43:25 2005] a Needlescale Basilisk has been awakened by Mystiqat.
[Sat Jun 25 22:44:19 2005] a Needlescale Basilisk has been awakened by Edgez.
[Sat Jun 25 22:47:19 2005] an Earthen Crusader has been awakened by Tytin.
[Sat Jun 25 22:48:54 2005] an Earthen Warden has been awakened by Mikoto.
[Sat Jun 25 22:48:59 2005] an Earthen Warden has been awakened by Mikoto.
[Sat Jun 25 22:50:58 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Culdahl.
Sat Jun 25 22:51:09 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Shieara.
[Sat Jun 25 22:52:17 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sat Jun 25 22:52:40 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Shieara.
[Sat Jun 25 23:02:18 2005] A Vekerchiki Warrior has been awakened by Celtious.
[Sat Jun 25 23:03:33 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Celtious.
[Sat Jun 25 23:03:56 2005] a Korascian Necksnapper has been awakened by Tribblelet.
[Sat Jun 25 23:04:59 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Tribblelet.
[Sat Jun 25 23:05:02 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Tribblelet.
[Sat Jun 25 23:06:45 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sat Jun 25 23:07:31 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Kinden.
[Sat Jun 25 23:10:12 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sat Jun 25 23:10:33 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Celtious.
[Sat Jun 25 23:11:17 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sat Jun 25 23:11:57 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sat Jun 25 23:13:17 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Mikoto.
[Sat Jun 25 23:13:32 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Tribblelet.
[Sat Jun 25 23:19:31 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Tytin.
[Sat Jun 25 23:19:32 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Tribblelet.
[Sat Jun 25 23:19:34 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Mikoto.
[Sat Jun 25 23:19:44 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Suegar.
[Sat Jun 25 23:19:45 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Tytin.
[Sat Jun 25 23:19:58 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Tytin.
[Sat Jun 25 23:20:08 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Suegar.
[Sat Jun 25 23:20:08 2005] A Dust Devotee has been awakened by Mikoto.
[Sat Jun 25 23:22:26 2005] A Vekerchiki Warrior has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sat Jun 25 23:24:47 2005] A Miniature Dustrunner has been awakened by Propertool.
[Sat Jun 25 23:24:54 2005] A Miniature Dustrunner has been awakened by Propertool.
[Sat Jun 25 23:46:39 2005] a Mass of Living Earth has been awakened by Mikoto.
[Sun Jun 26 00:07:01 2005] a Mass of Living Earth has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sun Jun 26 00:07:20 2005] a Mass of Living Earth has been awakened by Tribblelet
[Sun Jun 26 00:07:30 2005] a Mass of Living Earth has been awakened by Tytin.
[Sun Jun 26 00:07:36 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sun Jun 26 00:07:48 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Suegar.
[Sun Jun 26 00:07:57 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sun Jun 26 00:08:19 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Tribblelet.
[Sun Jun 26 00:08:43 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Suegar.
[Sun Jun 26 00:08:50 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Culdahl.
[Sun Jun 26 00:09:25 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Tytin.
[Sun Jun 26 00:10:06 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Tytin.
[Sun Jun 26 00:44:32 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Suegar.
[Sun Jun 26 00:45:09 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Kenshiro.
[Sun Jun 26 00:45:16 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Tribblelet.
[Sun Jun 26 00:45:38 2005] A Triumvirate Protector has been awakened by Mikoto.

Okay I didn't account for two things here. First, mezz breaks by warrs are not included, nor are those from Mog and Krae. Second, the times when Mog or Krae were down I also couldn't include because my logs didn't seem to record their deaths.

Now I want you all to read these for a sec.

# of mezz breaks within a ~2 hour period : 50
Most mezzes broke : Culdahl
2nd most mezzes broke : Tribblelet

So...here we go.

Shieara : 3
Mystiqat : 1
Tytin : 7
Mikoto : 7
Culdahl : 11
Celtious : 3
Tribblelet : 8
Kinden : 1
Suegar : 5
Propertool : 3
Kenshiro : 1

And yes I am calling names here and I am singling out people and I am yelling. Sorry if that hurts your self-esteem. I can't be all warm and fuzzy about this one. People were running around like they had never seen a raid before. It was like everyone was watching the lastest episode of the Simpsons or something. You'll forgive me if I thought that this was pretty sad.

Maybe we weren't clear that when Mog, Krae, Tribb and Cul were named offtanks that meant only on the named that pop during the event (those yellow cons). Was "only the three I called (Mog, Krae, Jakel) should be breaking mezz" unclear somehow?

Some of these breaks were from when Mog/Krae were down and a different knight was tanking. Some of them were because a tank was switching target. Some of them are just pure screw-ups like when I typed Krae as Krea until I noticed something was up.

We *all* need to try to eliminate this. Dps, knights, and melee. Casters seem like they have it under control. Believe it or not, I do understand how to play a tank. I know that sometimes positioning is screwed up, sometimes you are planning to offtanktank a mob and it gets mezzed while you are in mid-cast so you wake it. But there is no excuse for this many mezz breaks. Theres's no excuse for it from knights, dps, or anyone. We either lock it down or we don't progress in the EP and that is just it I am sad to say.

I also don't know what to say about the croc thing. We aggroed dusty and, knowing from the past two hours that killing him spawned a bunch of crap, people instantly decided to try to own him? I mean wtf? I just sat there in amazement before breaking into laughter and ordering an evac. I mean what can I say about this?

I am just going to have to shut up here before this rant gets any worse, and I won't say any more on the subject, but how can you look at that and not say we have a problem with mezz breaks? Saturday night was a lesson to all of us in what not to do on a raid, and anyone who thinks differently has their head in the sand.

[Tytin]

Tytin was on my machine.... this is Tribblelet posting.



Keep in mind I've only skimmed Shieara's last post...

I set my assist to "Jakel" last night. While I don't have it set to /auto attack I did jump right on in there. As a DPS tank I don't appreciate the MT changing targets unless there is an unmezzable one called.

I was also the last OT on the list, when 5 mobs showed up I grabbed one. So, no I didn't understand that I was only supposed to do that when the named was there. I missed that I'm sorry.

Each time I break a mezz my heart does give a funny little jump. Can't help it it just happens.

I would like to apologise to Dohi and Medi because I know for sure that I broke mezz that killed them. Due to HoTT I know that.

I am not justifing - just clarifing.

[Suegar]

I win the most mezzes broken by a rogue category, go me !

[Ghraa]

Hmmm, hard to argue against a log file.

In defense of everyone listed though there were a few instances where I would be cycling targets and cast a mez on a mob at 100% and then see it go to 99% or 98% just as mez hit. Means a tank probably saw it moving same as I did and decided to do a good deed and OT or something and then got the "you have broken mez message".

However, only maybe 10% (i'm being generous btw) of that log file would fit that category.

I do think there was some confusion on what an Off Tank was supposed to do. OT's were for the yellow con mobs only (they can't be mezzed). If you wanna OT a mezzable mob because its running loose its also helpful for OTs to use non-damaging aggro generating means to OT mobs till they GET mezzed. I don't think our problem was to bad players. I honestly think Culdahl, Shierra, Trib, kraim, Tytin, Mikoto and everyone on the list does a great job. I sincerely apologize if I give a different impression.

Tanks please tell me if I am wrong but I think the problem was two fold.

1. OT's not counting on a mob to get mezzed and deciding to OT mezzables instead of just unmezzables. Maybe because of misunderstanding, maybe a lack of thorough explanation or perhaps just a lack of confidence in us chanters. Let me know cause I am not wanting to point fingers and cause hard feelings. I just wanna fix the problem. Notice my wife is the second worst offender on the list. I neeeeed good relations with the tanks. Work with me here. There WAS a problem. Lets identify it and fix it. Was this it?

2. I do think there was also a big problem with calling assist and then switching targets. I've gotten just tooooo many /tells from casters, tanks, rangers, pretty much everyone but the healers that they would see an assist call and then the one calling assist would switch targets.

I am guessing assist was called and then they noticed it was mezzed and moved on. Well the rest of the folks didn't move on...... Would definently explain alot of the mez break messages. If so then its easy to fix. Don't attack a mob till you see it moving. The assist caller should have had it awake and moving before you ever fire your first shot or take your first whack. Assist caller should have had it awake and moving before calling assist for that matter.

If there is a mezzed mob you wanna kill do this please.
1. Get aggro
2. Break the mez
3. Call assist.

Any other order and I will get killed when in EPlanes. Its that simple. Please don't kill me. I wanna live.

[Culdahl]

[Darby]

I can vouch for Culdahl not losing agro on several mobs, as I did assist him. Just because my name isnt listed as breaking mez, doesnt mean I wasnt helping an OT to kill a mob.

My job as was Celts was to keep lose mobs from hitting the healers. I cast stun/taunt/stun and wait to see if its beating me or drooling. If its drooling I look for the next lose mob....if its beating me, Im hoping a healer see's it...as I start another taunt/stun/taunt/stun cycle. But I can only grab 1 mob, I saw lots of mobs lose...when there were no mobs running around I was mostly helping Culd tank his down. (these comments were for Saturdays raid)

Tonight I was the ST, so after setting a hotkey for /rs....details
/looks confused
If I was breaking mez on a mob, its taunt/stun/taunt/stun/taunt(using a DD/Knockback to break mez) attack /stun call

my stun hotkey is set to recast incase of a fizzle...while that hotkey is working I can't make an assist call in /rs with the other hotkey. I got a tell from a tank saying basically, Bro call out assist I dont want to get into trouble...

the raid leaders can correct me if Im wrong, but as we crawled to Emoush it really didnt matter if you were assisting Mogaba or me as long as you let us break mez. ( I like to think of it as an Agro lock, before calling assist)

but, Im often

/looks confused

[Shieara]

Okay biggest issue here is obvious. We just weren't clear enough with the strategy and people weren't sure when to do non-damage aggro, what they were supposed to offtank, and when. Second biggest issue is when we popped two rings the raid should have been called right then.

"Korinne tells the raid: as we kill him he will spawn adds..OTs again need to be on top of this"

"Korinne tells the raid: OTs need to react FAST and and until they die or the mob is mezzed or dead.

So it was called. You either missed it or..I dunno it seems clear to me. I don't see how that could be misunderstood. By breaking mezz on a mob you were contributing to deaths. What should have happened is once your mob was mezzed you snag one of the other ones roaming. Instead people tanked them to the ground, so instead of three mobs you could have helped mezz there was only one you helped park...leaving the rest free to eat the healers/chanters.

But regardless, I think we should stop beating a dead horse and find some solutions. Here are the things I think we should consider doing to help this situation, and I am open to more suggestions.

1. I will work hard to get the next level of delegate main assist. 3/7 points now. That way everyone will have a targeting ring to look at.

2. Kor and I will be extremely explicit about what will be mezzed, and what will be offtanked using damage. Also will be more clear about who to assist when. Of course everyone else has to do their part too, and this means paying attention while strategy is given and asking questions if there is any doubt. It also means being on time so you don't miss the strategy when given.

3. I will moderate both Afterhours and Ahraid so that no distractions are there while strategy is being discussed. As soon as strats are given moderate will go off and people can continue chatting.

4. All tanks will make an assist hotkey and use it when tanking, both on trash and on named. This means once they pick a target, they stay on it as much as possible. If they must change targets they will have a specifc hotkey for this, like "SWITCHING to %t."

5. If someone is found to be consistantly mezz breaking, peeling aggro off the MT on named, MT switching targets, etc. they will be called on the carpet about it. I will have a SL look specifically for this so it can be dealt with on an individual level.

6. In situations like Bertox and RZ we already use a channel all offtanks/kiters are in. We will add one for offtanks for earth rings and other events to help with organization.

Those are basically all I can think of to help. So if anyone has more let me know.

[Ghraa]

Thank you for the compliment Culdahl. Much appreciated.

I do need to say though that the chanters didn't get overwelmed or come close. Threep has kept over 8+ locked down by himself before while we did dust ring. Good story about it posted here somewhere. Past 14 mobs we do start having some troubles cause it becomes very hard to sort out who is keeping what mezzed. We end up doubling or trippling up on some mobs.

Its does take us awhile to get everything locked down. Afraid when we get a big pull chanters don't get a handy dandy ring that says "this is olidans" or "this is tymysts". Not unheard of to have an 8 pull and all of us mez the same mob while other 7 run around. Just have faith in us. We will get it all locked down safely given just a bit of time.

A little secret. We LOVE the chaos. We thrive on it. We look forward to it and are disappointed when we don't get it. Its what we do. Without it we would play another class. Good chanters HATE to buff and consider it a necessary evil. Don't confuse us with those things selling KEI in PoK. Thats something different entirely.

Wdarby has worked with us for a very long time and knows how raid chanters work. Its sooooo different from what most folks think. Give us a 10 pull and we start to get interested. We like being tested. PoE event was FUUNN right up until i died. I'm pissed I died not because i died, its because my fun was interrupted.

OT's were definently needed on the mobs that night. We needed them to do just as Wdarby did. Gain aggro and OT until you see it drooling and then switch. When there is a big pull and everything gets chaotic we need help. Help in the form of time. Every 4 seconds of time you can buy us is one more mob locked down. Every mez broke is 4 seconds we have lost. Lots of folks died that night where 4 seconds would have made all the difference.

Chanters definently have an attitude about mobs:

All your mobs are belong to us. Back away from the sleeping mob and you won't get hurt. Just put the weapon down and slowely back away.

Work with them and they will love you.

[Korinne]

LOL Ghraa.....Now the pullers know why I have them bring 4 or 5 mobs at a time. shhhh you gave away my secret. The funniest thing I thought happened last night was Xik was FD'ing some aggro and I was like hmmm..... and then this happened

Olidan tells the channel "have him bring them, we can handle them IMO"
Korinne tells Xikshaaz "just bring em"
Xikshaaz tells Korinne "you realize there are like 5 right?"
Korinne tells Xikshaak "yes just bring them all like now "
Xikshaaz tells Korinne "ok if you say so"
Korinne tells the raid "INC 5"
Jakel tells the raid "Assist me in killing such and such"
Olidan is slain by a devotee!
Korinne giggles.
Druid X is slain by a devotee.
Korinne giggles again.
Ghraa tells ahchanters "Korinne that was 7!"
Hearrun tells ahhealers "Inc Rez Olidan"
Korinne laughs out loud.
Korinne tells <insert channel here> Olidan, thought you said you could handle it! /grin.

I got a good chuckle out of that.

Anyways, Shi is right. The major problem is that people hadn't done the event before and my instructions weren't clear. So lets learn and move on and see how many more "challenges" we can give the chanters

Many thanks for all the input into this and I think we will do much better next time.
_________________
It takes talent to lose oneself. Now where was I?

Korinne Neverfound, Lost Druid of Norrath

[Culdahl]

[Earlinde]

I have read this entire post from start to finish and the only word I can think of to describe how I feel is astonished.

This is how I see things ( please take into consideration this is coming from a non-melee):
1) We had a raid
2) People didn't 100% follow instructions
3) We Wiped

This is how I think it should be handled:
1) We look at the raid as a learning experience
2) we try to work harder as a team to improve
3) We should not continue to drag the issue out and whine over it

Overall, I think we have a good group of people. We all just have different things that we are good at and others that we are not so good at. We should all work together to help eachother grow and not take every little criticism so personal but be glad that there a people who want to help show you how you can improve your game. I will be the first to tell you that there is no one here better than anyone else but advice and comments from eachother can help if you all just learn not to get offended so easily.
_________________

[Edgez]

I agree with Earlinde here, 100%.
_________________
"Your life is yours alone. Rise up and live it."
- Richard Rahl

[Shieara]

If you cannot take criticism about your class...sorry door's to your left. Pet classes got this same discussion and more then once, though it was over pet discipline. We lost a mage over it but gained increased smoothness on raids. If I see an issue (Post 1: overaggroing, Post 2: mezz breaks) you can 100% expect it to be brought up here to be hashed out. Going on an individual basis does not work well because I have difficulty watching all 50 people on the raid every night.

I think knights would highly benefit from electing a "class lead" and using a channel during all raids. The lead is responsible for organization, discipline, and running special tasks (Bert/RZ). That way there is only one person I have to talk to, and you can police yourselves. If I see what I think is a problem I go straight to the lead and he/she tells me what is up and if necessary corrects the problem. The lead also should have some balls and be willing to stand up for your class. I used to do it for Beastlords in Bax's reign and it worked very well for dealing with our issues. This would probably eliminate any further posts on my part, as it would go a long way towards having someone to speak for knights as a whole and get their perspective.

Actually this post was pretty useful as it told me I need to work on how tactics are explained and terminology. I agree though it is time to let it die.