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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: New aa - read and review
These are the new AA I'd like to implement. I was going to put them in April 1st, but I have decided that I'd rather have at least one more week for feedback so they will not go into effect until the 10th or so.
Some things to keep in mind...I am not a mage. I am not a necro. I am not a berzerker. Some of these I have had little or no input on other then what I think would be good. I'm completely ignorant about, say, wizards.
So I want people to look for a couple things. One thing I want to mention is to keep an eye out for any aa that has prereqs I missed. We're shooting for around 120-150 aa here (not including 6 from general) and I don't want to go too much over due to a 12 aa thing I didn't see. Another is just whether you think the aa are useful, or if you think I missed a vital class aa somewhere. I've tried to stay away somewhat from aa that are only useful on raids, but you will find a few in there.
I've used abbreviations in this post. Hopefully they are all understandable. In my draft of the new application, you will click on your class and a seperate window will open with the requirements, and they are typed out on that so there is no confusion.
If you comment, please give details. Especially if you are commenting on something you don't like in the requirements. Just saying "I don't like the beastlord aa" is much less useful to me then "I think requiring perfection of spirit 3 is a bit much due to the poor scaling with respect to current mana pools."
Some people may seem like they got a lot less then others. Add them up before you comment (paladin aa look like a lot less, but it's just cause it was gimp to write both CA3, LR5, and all that instead of RM5).
Recommended aa I am kind of in debate on including. Mostly cause it is hard to tell what each class should get, and also it will make the list a lot longer and be a considerable amount of typing on my part. So feel free to let me know if you think they should even be on the class page at all.
With that said, here is the current list:
Bard
Required AA - ND3, FM, MC3, ISM, IIM, B&MR, BB
Recommended AA - LR5, EN3, AT3, EoT3, EN3
Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Eden Prairie, Minnesota
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject:
Hi, just figured I would try and post as much constructive criticism as I can regarding the Rogue AA's.
I feel that a few changes in the list would definitely be beneficial. I will go through all the required AA's on the list and state my opinion (some of which is based from more knowledgable rogues on www.thesafehouse.org). I will then offer a few suggestions about some other AA' that aren't even on the list.
SoS: First of all, Shroud of Stealth should be #1 in large bold letters. This is the best AA in the game from any class imo. It is so important, that immediately upon hitting level 63 every rogue should get it. If it would have cost 30 AA to get SoS, it would still be the best AA I ever spent. But its on the list, so thats good.
Escape: Necessary wonderful AA. Definitely worthy of being required like it is.
ND3: HP are always good, might even take it a step further and require Physical Enhancement too. Again, worthy of being required.
WA5: I am at work right now, without complete access to an AA list, but I assume this is Weapon Affinity 5. If so, to be completely honest I don't know why it is on this list. If memory serves me correctly, WA5 is just a higher chance to proc. Procs don't really do much damage, cause more aggro and imo this is really a fairly useless AA until you get other things first. It wouldn't even be in my op 25 AA's to get.
RA3: Drawing a blank on this one. Not sure what RA3 stands for, will check when I get home from work. But if I can't remember it off the top of my head, I am going to guess that it isn't too important to me.
Sinister: Sinister Strikes is one of the better AA's a rogue should get. Definitely worthy of being required.
Triple BS: While Triple Backstab doesn't add as much damage as you may think, it is still a worthwhile AA and worthy of being required. I would, however, like to note that Triple BS has 3 levels just like lots of other AA's and you may want to specify whether only TBS1 or TBS3 is required.
Chaotic Stab: *shrug* this would personally fall under the recommended category if you ask me. It adds a little DPS under less than optimal situations, but again I feel that other AA are more useful.
Now, I will suggest a few AA that I would personally make required rather than the couple I don't like above.
Ambidexterity: One of the best DPS AA's a rogue can get. Increases chances of a successful dual wield. Would be right after SoS and Escape in my purchase order.
Ferocity 3: Again, one of the best DPS AA's a rogue can get. From the parses I have read, Ferocity and Ambidexterity both add more DPS than sinister strikes or Triple BS.
For a list of recommended AA's ill throw out a few suggestions without going into great detail about them.
Combat Agility 3 / Lightning Reflexes 5
Veterans Wrath 3
Precision 3
Flurry of Knives 3
Nimble Evasion 5 (LOVE this AA). Being able to go completely invis on the run is simply awesome. Also helps with evading.
Ill stop there for now. But hopefully it helped some. For even more info, go to the safehouse and poke around a bit. Tons of wise rogues there.
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject:
WA adds a significant amount of DPS via procs...I believe WA 5 increases your proc rate by something like 50% and when you have 2+ procs per weapon x2 weapons that's a LOT of DPS.
Ambidexterity is a prerequisite for sinister strikes. Since sinister is on the list, it is pretty much assumed that they will have ambidex already.
I guess I just forgot to put the three on TripleBS. It's staring me in the face here on my rough draft.
RA3 is the DoDh advanced version of Flurry. Flurry is a prerequisite for it.
As far as defensives go, I'd love to see everyone with LR5 at least. However, rogues should not be getting hit that often and it shouldn't be a huge priority there I think.
I'll look at nimble evasion and maybe take a look at crits again later. Rogues I think are pretty close to the 150 line as is, but I will check it out and see if we can work in some of your other suggestions.
Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Eden Prairie, Minnesota
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:
Ah yes, brain fart on the Ambidexterity / Sinister strikes deal. I should have known that, considering I have both heh. Makes sense to only list Sinister then.
As for the CA3 / LR5, I completely agree. If we are getting hit a lot, we are doing something wrong as it is. I guess all I was trying to point out is that if a Rogue is going to get any defensives they should definitely be the agility ones over the stability ones (although, this is probably true for every class... I don't know). But I wouldn't have them above "recommended" anyway, which you didn't.
And perhaps I will need to look at weapon affinity a little more closely, if people really think that it is a worthwhile AA. Very little mention of it compared to the other DPS AA's over at the safehouse.
I am not sure on WA for pure melee myself. I know that for beastlords, it is a very good dps booster. However, we can boost it by investing in spell crits and/or healing aa, and also our double attack figure is low so it adds up to a lot more.
For pure melee though there may be a better option.../shrug.
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: rog AA's
Well if you are iffy on WA5 for rog's....my two CP's I haven't planned on getting this one for awhile still got others I deem more important..one of which is enchanced aggression....cost is the same and might debate on swapping the two for rog...or even thinking of swapping forced opening 3. too requiered and WA 5 to recomended....can't really be positive on WA. I run only two proc's on my weapons not 4 as of yet....not capable with 1.0 in hand.
Here's a list of rogue dps aa from the Safe House forums.
DPS AA (Listed in order of importance):
Ferocity 3 (increases chance of double attack)
Ambidexterity (increases chance of double attack)
Triple Backstab 3 (increases chance of a triple backstab attempt)
Sinister Strikes (increase off hand weapon damage)
Precision 3 (increases the chance to hit when backstabbing)
Flurry of Knives 3 (further increases chance of a triple backstab attempt)
Combat Fury 3 (adds crits to weapon damage)
Chaotic Stab (allows a rogue to land a backstab from the front of the mob, causing min backstab damage - 2 x lvl)
Fury of the Ages 3 (increases crit percentage)
Defense AA's (Listed in order of importance):
Combat Agility 3 (increases chance to avoid melee attacks)
Physical Enhancement (increases CA, ND, CS by one rank)
Nimble Evasion 5 (increases the chance to hide/evade while moving)
Lightning Reflexes 5 (increases chance to avoid melee attacks)
Hastened Stealth 3 (decreases the wait behind attempts to hide/evade)
Combat Stability 3 (increase melee damage mitigation)
Innate Defense 5 (increase melee damage mitigation)
Reflexive Mastery 5 (increases chance to avoid melee attacks)
Defensive Instincts 5 (increase melee damage mitigation)
Utility AA's (Listed in order of importance):
Shroud of Stealth (Reduces the number of mobs that can see a rogue to almost none)
Escape (removes a rogue from all hatelists)
Innate Run Speed 3 (increase run speed)
Planar Power 5 (increases max stats by 5)
Hasty Exit 3 (reduces the reuse timer on Escape by 10% each level)
Natural Durability 3 (increase the base hp of a character)
Mystical Attuning 5 (increase the number of buffs a character can have on them at once
As far as enhanced aggression goes, it's a good 5% dps increase for rogues according to parses I have read if you max it, but it is only effective if you are already at max worn attack. Just as info.
Just one thing I do think needs to be stated here, escape is imo by far the most overrated aa. Almost all the times a rogue gets in trouble anyway the mob will see SoS so its useless :p Not sure id even have it on the recomended list anymore, nm required
Joined: Aug 09, 2005 Posts: 684 Location: California
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:51 am Post subject:
One thing I think everyone should have is at least run 3.
For paladins specifically I've been concentrating on the AAs for use with our epics - 2hs. So Knights expertise comes further down the list IMO then Swift Blade. I personally use 2 handed weapons more often now then the one handed and a shield.
I would also place Precog in the list before Thick Skin - avoiding the damage in the first place helps even more then mitigating it.
Due to the number of times I have to cast Brells for folks who arrive late, have blocking spells up, or have recently been rezzed I have not bothered to get MGB but have gotten Vanquish Undead instead (so cool to buzz thru a South Ro LDoN with Wdarby and I cleansing the undead). If the content AH is headed for has occasions where the raid is likely to need re-buffing in a hurry I will move MGB higher on my personal list.
They're not in a specific order of when I think you should get them. So, uhh, I think that covers all your concerns Ard. Trying to organize them in that fashion would take forever.
Rangers dont need RS-3. They got that handy Ranger Gate. Do Pallies need RS-3 so they can run and hide behind the walls? (Think there was a pic around of that around here someplace)
Berserker class requirements i would add PD 3, PE, BA3, and EC3.
PD 3 and PE more hp berserkers are aways taking damage.
BA 3 increases dps of frenzy one of the primary berserker button masher.
EC 3 another dps upper , adds haste and atk to the whole group for 120 sec, instead of 60 sec without it, and with this the berserker can use two of his disc instead just one.
Berserker class recommended i would add HWC 3, UT 3, SS 3, BP 3, and ID5.
HWC 3 reduces the reuse time of war cry disc.
UT 3 enduranceless dps disc on it's own timer.
SS 3 enduranceless dps disc on it's own timer.
BP 3 dps increaser that stack with other dps disc's
ID 5 will help the berserker live long when the mobs do turn on them.
Regards
Thunderer ( on my other half computer since she is on mine )- )
i only see one complaint so far.. why has mgb been taken off required aa for clerics? i know we dont necessaruily use it to buff beofre or durring the raids but we do use it quite often for mgb healing. i guess its not really a big thing but i do believe that every cleric should have mgb _________________ And you can't fight the tears that ain't coming
Or the moment of truth in your lies
When everything feels like the movies
Yeah you bleed just to know you're alive
just one question why gom required for enchanter? )
while it does give you a cast for 1 mana, not a very likely thing for an enchanter to put points into in the 100-200 aa range...
i could see a wizzard or mage...
i would suggest replacing gom3 req with EoC3 instead, much more useful on raids imo...
you may not see it now, but being as how you are starting on god you will require things like eoc3 and such.
mez mastery is also a good option for req in place of gom3 being as how they wont be getting ticks for gom off of mez, and if you have enchanters dpsing there is a problem )
really i guess, i dont see a point in an enchanter haveing the aa GoM. ae mez maybe... _________________ Dohi Fraylmind
I would also recommend pet focus for mages and any other pet class that can get this ability.
This will keep a pet attacking the same target continuously until told to attack another, regardless of whether another mob nearby is hitting it with AOEs or not. _________________ Beladonna A`tropine,
Level 70 Dark Elf Battle Mage (1101 AA's)
Hghest crit so far...11726 (32K vs summoned)
Who wants to marry me? I need a new pet!
Placos A'tropine,
Level 64 Dark Elf Warrior,
12 AAs
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