Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like theme manager, comments configuration and post comments with your name.
Joined: Aug 09, 2005 Posts: 684 Location: California
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: Ramp tanking and you!
This is a very good explanation of ramp tanking and the DA hammer you may have seen me using (much better then the info I had from back when Tereica helped me get the hammer).
I will be setting up a hot key for those occasions when I need a heal - the hammer proc'd a bunch more then I expected it to last night making it clear to me that I better get that set before tonight.
While the hammer is primarily used by Paladins if we ever have an excess of Clerics (ha!) someone like Hearrun could fill this role also .
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ramp tanking and you!
Ardnasc wrote:
This is a very good explanation of ramp tanking and the DA hammer you may have seen me using (much better then the info I had from back when Tereica helped me get the hammer).
I will be setting up a hot key for those occasions when I need a heal - the hammer proc'd a bunch more then I expected it to last night making it clear to me that I better get that set before tonight.
While the hammer is primarily used by Paladins if we ever have an excess of Clerics (ha!) someone like Hearrun could fill this role also .
Joined: Aug 09, 2005 Posts: 684 Location: California
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:06 am Post subject:
Sadly the PoN site is unstable - I've copied the thread text here:
Author Thread
Gimmur
Noble Squire
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Ontario, Canada A Submission for the Knowledge Base...
I loved the write up in the knowledge base about our basic raiding role. It covered almost every aspect we have and terms needed to get you going but it missed a key role, Ramp tank. In our guild this is the probably the most highly visible role of any paladin on our raids. Its not a new idea,but one I didn't see in that forum. I figured I'd make this post to get it added or edited into that forum.
Make posts for anything I have left out, or need to change and I will do my best to fix it.
The Paladin Ramp Tank( RT )
So you would like some of the glory of a Warrior on raids?
Would like a more visible role?
Be able to say "I ramp tanked raidmob01"?
This is the guide to getting you in the limelight. First you will need to acquire a few items, then setup some hotkeys and finally convince your Raidleader its a good idea.
Items and Spells needed:
Divine Hammer of Consternation
A shield (most already have, but the better the shield the better the RT)
The best Heal over Time(HoT) spell you can get at your level
Your DA Hammer
First to get your Divine Hammer of Consternation you need to travel to Grieg's End in luclin and find Praetorian Myral or PM for short. The following link at RPG Expert is very good, and will show you where to find him and how to deal with PM. You can invis right to his room, which is located clser to the Scarlett Desert ZL(as shown on the map below. Start keeping a log of his spawn timer. Track when he is up, and when you think he was last killed. From my experience and reading his spawn timer is roughly 2 days.
Now when you see him up you can tell right away if he has your hammer or not, it will be visible in his hand. You will need to kill him even if he doesn't so you can get him to respawn with it. I have tried a few ways of killing him, but your best bet is to get a necro friend or any kiting class to come and give you a hand to kite him. You just follow along behind when he gives you the thumbs up, dps'ing as best you can. If he doesn't have the DA hammer this can take all of 5-10mins with a good kiter and friends to DPS. If he has the DA hammer, you must kite him or root rot him else the fight takes forever, for he can and will proc DA and be immune to all forms of dmg. Once you kill him, loot your hammer and you have the hardest part of the RT formula done.
How a DA RT Works
Now here is why you spent all that time getting your DA hammer. Some guilds use the Second Tank in their order as the RT, but ours uses a DA Paladin. Requires less healers, the RT remains the same through out the tank order. I'm going to briefly go ov er the basics of how Rampage works, cause you need to know this so you can set yourself as RT.
Rampage is the the damage a mob does to another person other than the one with the most aggro. It occurs everytime you see "mob01 rampages". Rampage is set by being the first person on the mobs aggro list. This is not the highest, but the person who first aggros the mob. This person on ramp will never be the person with the most aggro, cause if it is it will skip them and go to the next person on the ramp list. FD classes can remove themselves by staying FD or getting a memwipe. On some mobs an evac or zoning out works, but is not true in all mobs. Sometimes rampage can also be avoided by getting out of melee range, then the next person on the list will become ramp, usually a healer. This is also the case when the RT dies.
So to inorder for you set yourself as the RT, I use 2 methods:
Plink with an arrow and pull the mob to raid, hitting DA on inc, and let the Main Tank taunt it off you.
Hitting DA, then running headlong into the mob, gaining prox aggro and pulling to raid, allowing the MT to taunt off you.
I use #1 as often as possible to gain more time under DA, but with hard hitting fast running mobs, #2 is safer and will always work.
Now that you understand rampage here is how a paladin with a DA hammer can excel. We are going to avoid the ramp damage by using the Divine Hammer of Consternation 's procs to DA thru most of it(hoepfully). Now there is a catch, while DA you can't take any damage, but you also cannot be healed unless you have HoT on you. So we are going to help the RT healer by setting up some hotkeys. Druids seem to be the best as our healer, but shamans and clerics can do the job aswell.
DA RT Hotkeys
First you need to find out who the Ramp healer(s) will be. Then you need to set up 2 hotkeys, one for when DA fires, and a second for when its about to fall.
DA ON
code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
;tell RampHealer01 ~~~~DA'S UP~~~~
/pause 3 <--- so message will be seen in raidsay
/rs DA'S ON SAVE YOUR HEALS!!! <---use caps to make it stand out
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DA OFF
code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
;tell RampHealer01 DA down in 3
/pause 30 <--- casting time for most quick heals
;tell Ramp Heal ====DA Down==== <--- make stuff around message different from DA UP
/pause 3 <--- so message will be seen in raidsay
/rs <====HEAL ME DA DOWN!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now how to use this...this takes some watching on the healer's and tank's part, but its the best way I have found to deal with a DA hammer. I have used it to success on all the mobs in Time, all the Ikkinz raid trails, the raid Targets in RCoD, RSS, and all the way to COA.
When you see DA fire hit your DA UP hotkey and then mouse over the DA buff icon (or hold down Alt) to see the timer run down. The timer jumps down by 6 sec inrcements. When the timer changes from 6 to 0 you have 3 secs till DA falls, this is roughly the time it takes for a druid or cleric to cast their fast heal. I also suggest that your ramp healer turns on their tell windows to better see at which point you are in the DA cycle. Once DA falls targoet yourself and cast your HoT, skip this if a cleric or shaman is your healer, as they will most likely keep one on you. You may also have to expalin how DA works to your healer, I have had a druid curse me out afterwards cause his heals weren't landing. Then just rinse and repeat...
Other notes and suggestions I have...
Make sure to have 3-4 buff slots open for HoTs, DA and any AE's you might encounter.
Get all the extra buff slots you can though AA's and the DoN progression. As an RT you lose 2 of these to your DA proc and a HoT.
If you have to get rid of buffs take of your Combat Innate, followed by any ATTK buffs(you aren't DPS here, you're a dmg sponge), and haste aswell. Although enchanter haste increases your dex, which increases procs, haste itself does not, and in my experience hinders, the number of DA porcs you encounter.
Make sure your raid knows TO NOT NINJA BUFF THE RT!!! You will have probably already gotten your buffs in order and do not need any more before engage.
Save up for and get your Weapon Affinity AA's. This modifies the number of procs you get, Allowing for more time under DA.
Get items with Combat Effect Modifiers to increase proc rates.
Have an XP buffer ready for multiple deaths. This is a good rule of thumb for everyone, but more so for anyone tanking anything as I have died upto 23 times on one night trying new content getting the strat just right. We are the first to engage, and if the raid screws up getting in there you can die pretty fast. Most raid leaders will call a raid back to avoid a needless wipe.
Have DA memmed as soon as you can upon rez and keep is memmed. It has a 15 minute repop, and there is nothing worse than waiting on a DA pop before engaging.
Keep a good stock of Distillate of Celestial Healing X on you. They are readly available in POK from Ralkor Stoneclaw in the Western Trader building. I use them when mana is low, but some use them instead of our HoT.
Alright thats basically it. Go out, get your hammer, and get in there. The higher profile raid role some of your have craved is available.
Go Forth... Ramp Tank .. and may the DA Proc be with you!!!
Edited on May 20, 2006
Last edited by Gimmur on Sat May 20, 2006 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Thu May 18, 2006 7:39 am
Kneesmasher
Cavalier
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 253
I just have one Macro hotkey with both messages. Hit it once and go from there. I don't remember the /pause required because I set it up long ago, but it's easy to mess with and see what works.
First Line: DA IS UP FOR 18 SECONDS - NO HEALS
Second Line: /pause (whatever it is)
Third Line: DA IS DOWN YOU CAN HEAL ME NOW!
Put that in whatever raid channel you use, whether guild or Rsay or whatever, and you only have to hit it once and it does the rest. Since I DC alot on raids and otherwise, when DA procs I hit the hotkey and then I can focus on my DC a little bit more and not have to worry about much.
Also, I DC a shaman and oftentimes he is my dedicated healer when I Ramp Tank. It works great because I'm running both characters and I can see the DA and my Shaman's casting bar. Timing it is easy then.
_________________
Kneesmasher
Guild Leader of Immortals Rising
"Never Mistake Kindness for Weakness"
Thu May 18, 2006 10:30 am
Draglin
Noble Squire
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 50
Instead of sending the DA message to the raid channel, I just send it directly to the ramp healer. They REALLY appretiate it. Also I only send the messages when I have damage. The first time I spammed them when it was going up and down and even I thought it was spammy so I changed to just when I was needing heals and they found it much better.
_________________
Draglin Stoneshield'dhe * Orsini Wizard
Xegony Server
Thu May 18, 2006 4:51 pm
Galelor
Cavalier
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 200
IDIOTS GUIDE TO DA TANKING!!!
things you may want to add-
1. Praetorian Myral is close to the SD zone line in griegs end. so you can zone in and track him from there.
2. He is rootable. IE- shaman own him. MR on him is rather high until debuffs are in, but disease based root will last full duration nearly every time. personally used the rot rot method as it is much easier than kiting.
3. Weapons Affinity will increase the proc rate
*if you can't find someone to help you will disarm work to slot the hammer to the mobs inventory?
_________________
-Galelor Thefashioncop, *Xegony Server*
go ahead and touch it
The Duck
Thu May 18, 2006 5:26 pm
Dnalor
Loves Unicorns
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 303
Location: Felwithe Disarm should work, but when was the last time you actually disarmed something?
_________________
Avenger Dnalor Durindan
Lord of Tunare
Hand of Ka
Prexus
Thu May 18, 2006 8:11 pm
Galelor
Cavalier
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 200
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dnalor:
Disarm should work, but when was the last time you actually disarmed something?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
was more for someone who absolutly couldnt' get someone who can root or snare.
to answer the question, 2002?
_________________
-Galelor Thefashioncop, *Xegony Server*
go ahead and touch it
The Duck
Fri May 19, 2006 1:53 am
Luthair
Noble Squire
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 72
I believe mobs just instantly re-equip unless your disarm forces the mob to drop the weapon.
Another thing to consider, you can use ;tell soandso rather than the /tell, its generally faster and doesn't kick in the spam filter so you can immediately use another channel.
Fri May 19, 2006 8:01 am
Lamini
Noble Squire
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 84
ive been my guilds RT for couple years. sometimes raid doesnt even know who RT is, its that negligible, i have monopolized RTing for the tanks lol. I dont send tells to anyone for heals, even for Jelvan RTing, im healing myself, even when it gets rough. Of course penelopy vie, DI, Ward of Tunare, our group lay hands, lay hands, runes from ENC's are also helpful... another thing you can add is that heal potions are better than our best HoTs, and cost no mana, instacast, and dont kill your spellgems for 5 seconds, like ours does.
the bad side of DA ramping is...
its only good IF the MT doesnt die. if MT dies, and theres no other warriors, guess what, its you watching the NPC kill everyone because you have absolutely no way of grabbing agro after being DAd for 90% plus of a fight, and you dont have AE taunt, or a surefire way of grabbing agro. happened to me several times, our best tank somehow dies in one cell for jelvan, and no other warriors there, of course the healers strain their mana attempting to heal MTing knights. and you all know that when Knights are tanking raid bosses, the clerics have already /camped. so ya, DA/RTing is only good if MT doesnt die, because if he does, you cant do $hit other than chain stunning and hoping for taunt to work. but if the mobs already 50% health and youve been DAd most of that time, everyone already has more agro than you, so you get to watch them die while youre trying to grab agro with spells+taunt, and to make it worse, if you get a lucky Taunt, guess whos RT now!!! the clerics.. last couple jelvans we had, i didnt DA tank, had a lot of healing to do, but when we lost a war i wasnt chaining stuns + taunt to pray for agro, i had it. well, wtg for repeating myself
_________________
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 202
What exactly is needed to kill PM in Griegs? Would either a shammy or chanter be able to kill it, with you kiting? Or do you need more DPS than that due to his regen?
_________________
Redeemer Sophitiae
Final Destiny
Ayonae Ro
Fri May 19, 2006 11:02 am
Lamini
Noble Squire
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 84
the mobs in his courtyard are gimp. i killed it while a necro kited it. less than 5 minutes
_________________
Fri May 19, 2006 4:28 pm
Joslynn
Noble Squire
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 64
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sophi:
What exactly is needed to kill PM in Griegs? Would either a shammy or chanter be able to kill it, with you kiting? Or do you need more DPS than that due to his regen?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not the regen that gets ya, its the DA that will. But I've taken a group to melee him to death and it takes a tad longer but still realatively simple
_________________
Fri May 19, 2006 6:00 pm
Luthair
Noble Squire
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 72
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Lamini:
its only good IF the MT doesnt die. if MT dies, and theres no other warriors, guess what, its you watching the NPC kill everyone because you have absolutely no way of grabbing agro after being DAd for 90% plus of a fight, and you dont have AE taunt, or a surefire way of grabbing agro. happened to me several times, our best tank somehow dies in one cell for jelvan, and no other warriors there, of course the healers strain their mana attempting to heal MTing knights. and you all know that when Knights are tanking raid bosses, the clerics have already /camped. so ya, DA/RTing is only good if MT doesnt die, because if he does, you cant do $hit other than chain stunning and hoping for taunt to work. but if the mobs already 50% health and youve been DAd most of that time, everyone already has more agro than you, so you get to watch them die while youre trying to grab agro with spells+taunt, and to make it worse, if you get a lucky Taunt, guess whos RT now!!! the clerics.. last couple jelvans we had, i didnt DA tank, had a lot of healing to do, but when we lost a war i wasnt chaining stuns + taunt to pray for agro, i had it. well, wtg for repeating myself
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have to disagree with this statement, when you're ramp its nearly always better to let another grab agro otherwise ramp is libel to eat the raid.
Fri May 19, 2006 6:44 pm
Gimmur
Noble Squire
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Ontario, Canada Well I am glad for the input and feed back, I will update the infos about Myral.
I used /rsay and Tells cause often a channel can get bugged, and if the ramp healers dies to and AE or Add a second healer will know whats going on.
The single hotkey with a timer is ok, but sometimes I find clicking off DA, whie defeating is purpose is sometimes beneficial, to allow a Druid CH to land.
Lamini, no offence, but if you gain aggro as top tank, you are defeating the whole purpose of a RT. Even if the tank is down. If things go that far south I usually try to camp if a DA has fired to help withthe recovery. I have RT'd Many a times when a MT has died, and it still works, you must rely on your wars to be able to preform a tank switch. If they can't, or your healers can't handle it, thena anythig up from Ikkinz will be mighty difficult.
HoT pots are great, I keep them for when mana is low, but rely on my own HoT w/ Healing Boon 3 to carry me thru most fights. I can keep myself up on 90% of the mobs we enncounter, but a dedicated healer is very crucial. If we die as RT, we can very easily wipe the entire raid.
Thanks Luthan for the heads up on the :tell, I'll pu tit in and change my own hotkey.
As I said, I will update the original post, and thank you all for your input. Keep it coming...
_________________
Signature courtesy of Slayernyxx
Sat May 20, 2006 1:58 pm
Lamini
Noble Squire
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 84
no offense taken ;P. tired of peeps whining at me complaining that a DA tank does no good since all i can do is watch people in my cell die after all the warrs ate it already (and knights), im sure you understand, we've had very few warrs on lately
_________________
Sat May 20, 2006 10:20 pm
Occam
Noble Squire
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 51
Doesn't disarm only work on non-magic weapons? Or am I confusing it with something else?
_________________
My stuff
Sat May 20, 2006 10:47 pm
Draglin
Noble Squire
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 50
I am pretty sure your right Occum.
Our ramp healers out last most of us so I've never ran into the problem of them being dead before the mob or me being dead. Chances are if they are dead its because things just went south and I have new concerns outside of me being the RT.
_________________
Draglin Stoneshield'dhe * Orsini Wizard
Xegony Server
Sun May 21, 2006 9:30 am
Banzeye
Noble Squire
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 11
the easiest way for a healer to know da is up...... have em watch you from the back and when youre not hitting things DA is up= dont heal... when your hitting mob da is down no hot key ness. imho. works great for me.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" -Montazuma
Banzeye Purpleclubprez
70 paladin Novus Invictus Druzzil Ro
--The Guy Behind the Guy Behind the Guy
Mon May 22, 2006 3:09 am
YlaaCineria
Noble Squire
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 8
For those of you who don't usually equip a bow (cause pally archery skill is so sad), rather than shooting an arrow at a mob to get aggro, I usually cast Celestial Stun -- using the aa stun allows you to hit DA immediately afterward (different timers). By the time da wears off, the warrior will have aggro and you can rely on the DA hammer procs.
_________________
Ylaa Cinceria
Crimson Tempest
Maelin
Mon May 22, 2006 10:46 am
Gimmur
Noble Squire
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Ontario, Canada Having your healer works great unitl your helaer needs to mutli task, or is out of sight to avoid an AE.
The hotkeys are used to "help" out your healer and make if you need it he knows where you are in your DA cycle. Tells are the best method to minimize spam, But if your helaer goes sown the raidsay component is there to make a second healer available to you.
And yes, Occam is right. Disarm only works on non-Magic items. You cannot disarm PM of the DA hammer.
_________________
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
.
Yippee! So you can put me on the list for available RT's.
