[Wwein]

Well we had MY first attempt on Udengar today. AH has tried this raid before, but with no prior knowledge, and was purely an exploration. Today's attempt we actually got a very good taste of the raid, and did some killing.... before the giants took over in the killing department.

I was going to write up a new strat based on tonight's experience, but given that we had many more eyes than just mine, I think it'd be prudent to begin the discussion here, and then the management can add to the raid-o-matic entry based on that.

So to get the ball rolling, here's a few things I noticed in the fight log:

Power-up
[Sat Aug 16 00:01:57 2008] High Lorekeeper Udengar Dergon shouts 'By the power of Rallos Zek that boils in my blood, I bless you with the strength of War!'
[Sat Aug 16 00:02:50 2008] High Lorekeeper Udengar Dergon shouts 'By the power of Rallos Zek that boils in my blood, I bless you with the strength of War!'
[Sat Aug 16 00:02:50 2008] a Zek loyalist growls with the power he has gained.
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] High Lorekeeper Udengar Dergon shouts 'By the power of Rallos Zek that boils in my blood, I bless you with the strength of War!'
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] a Zek loyalist growls with the power he has gained.
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:32 2008] High Lorekeeper Udengar Dergon shouts 'By the power of Rallos Zek that boils in my blood, I bless you with the strength of War!'
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:32 2008] a Zek loyalist growls with the power he has gained.
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:22 2008] High Lorekeeper Udengar Dergon shouts 'By the power of Rallos Zek that boils in my blood, I bless you with the strength of War!'
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:22 2008] a Zek loyalist growls with the power he has gained.
[Sat Aug 16 00:06:12 2008] High Lorekeeper Udengar Dergon shouts 'By the power of Rallos Zek that boils in my blood, I bless you with the strength of War!'
[Sat Aug 16 00:06:12 2008] a Zek loyalist growls with the power he has gained.
[Sat Aug 16 00:07:07 2008] High Lorekeeper Udengar Dergon shouts 'By the power of Rallos Zek that boils in my blood, I bless you with the strength of War!'

Seems to be that the loyalists gain in power every 50 seconds. The first and last power-ups are slightly off though - this might be that each loyalist powers up at a different time, perhaps indicating it's based on the moment of first agro. I couldn't find any spell entry in Alla for these; I tried searches for 'zek', 'of war', 'war ', etc, but maybe someone else would have more luck? I suspect it's hard coded power-up though, meaning it probably can't be dispelled. I didn't notice any increase in the loyalist's max hits, although maybe they raise their ATK (ie hit more successfully, and for closer to their maxes) - can anyone confirm this?


Rampage / Wild Rampage
[Sat Aug 16 00:02:09 2008]: The assist (tag) on the first loyalist.
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:15 2008]: Roughly the time the second loyalist added.
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:18 2008]: The first raider died, Scaredof *rolls eyes*
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008]: The first wild rampage occured.

After this first wild rampage, they continued between 0 and 20 second intervals. Note there's a gap of over a minute before the first wild rampage, and also that it occured immediately after Scaredof's death. When a raider dies, the loyalist emotes "a Zek loyalist delivers a bone-crushing blow", so perhaps killing raiders powers-up the loyalists too? . It also occured moments after the second loyalist add, so instead maybe only one loyalist wild rampages, and the other only single rampages?

Here's some copy and pasting of the ramp/wild/deaths (I don't see any correlation between deaths and ramp/wild ramp though):

[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:30 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:47 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:10 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:18 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:21 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:33 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:33 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:37 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:46 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:03 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:07 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:12 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:13 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:29 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:33 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:35 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:36 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:50 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:59 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a WILD RAMPAGE!

[Sat Aug 16 00:03:18 2008] Scaredof has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:22 2008] Endiment has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:35 2008] Winvarenai has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:43 2008] Ardnasc has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:50 2008] Pauleleia has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:55 2008] Phaok has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:30 2008] Endiment has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:38 2008] Gromdelin has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:41 2008] Maruader has been slain by a Zek loyalist!
[Sat Aug 16 00:06:10 2008] Hasseo has been slain by a Zek loyalist!

[Sat Aug 16 00:02:13 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:03 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:08 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:13 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:32 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:40 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:48 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:03 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:19 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:21 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:26 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:35 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:43 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:45 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:49 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:52 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:10 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:16 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:06:06 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!
[Sat Aug 16 00:06:15 2008] a Zek loyalist goes on a RAMPAGE!

I also noticed there were times that very few people were hit by the wild rampage, and times where ten or more were hit. On other targets this often suggests a small wild rampage radius. I'd like to try our next attempt at max melee range.


Spells:
At no point in the logs do the loyalists cast a single spell. Can anyone pin down a particular second that they noticed the loyalist heal itself? Perhaps it's linked one of the above-mentioned power ups? Did you guys notice a heal based on a 1% hp increase, or heal to max, or spell effect or what?


Future Tests:
Once the kiting began, I saw no sign of Udanger after that. How far was he pulled away, and did he ever try to tether? If not, he could theoretically be pulled all the way to, say, the entrance. If a monk/bard were to do this, with a second monk/bard tagging the loyalists, could they actually be parted? Maybe we could have a FD group who do nothing but FD, stand up, FD, stand up etc to keep the loyalists busy for the whole raid?

Did anyone try to highsun the loyalists? If we were able to pull Udengar far from the statue, we might be able to just routinely highsun the loyalists back to their spawn point, even if they immediately charge back to the fight.

[Acoma]

Spells:
At no point in the logs do the loyalists cast a single spell. Can anyone pin down a particular second that they noticed the loyalist heal itself? Perhaps it's linked one of the above-mentioned power ups? Did you guys notice a heal based on a 1% hp increase, or heal to max, or spell effect or what?


I noticed the first heal when the initall Loyalist we pullled hit 60% life the first time and then he went to full health. Then the healing just seemed to hit when ever after that. I only saw 3 heals, i believe, before i was smashed. Never saw any spells persay, except when the ungar dude would say his little emote.

I was never hit by a ramp or wild ramp and I was right behind the mob and close. I actually had the mob turn on me and just crush me and i was not overnuking or anything.

I dont know if if it would help but if we had a group or 2 on each mob, like that event in anguish where you have to kill all three at nearly the same time or they get uber, may be something to that effect going on. I had fun and hope to smash him soon.
_________________
85 Ranger|85 Shaman
Plus 85 Cleric

[Wwein]

Nods it would be nice to know if there was a way to avoid the power ups. Typically in EQ you can avoid mobs getting super power ups by changing the strat (eg clicking OMM mask, and DPS off Draygun). In this event the power ups seemed marginal at best, which usually means it can't be avoided.

Here's the list of Wild Rampage hits:

[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Ardnasc for 2542 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 1316 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Blurryd for 2256 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Laenyani for 2646 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Winvarenai for 2298 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gonekab for 2360 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gonekab for 8500 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Giri for 1232 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Borammer for 2020 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Borammer for 1110 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 1096 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok for 1630 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:19 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 964 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Laenyani for 826 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 794 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 647 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Borammer for 850 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 706 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok for 1500 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 1484 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 834 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Acoma for 826 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Acoma for 6290 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok`s pet for 3400 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:25 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok`s pet for 7850 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Laenyani for 1736 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 1403 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 7605 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Borammer for 980 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 2266 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Acoma for 1216 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok`s pet for 930 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:27 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok`s pet for 8500 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:30 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 647 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:30 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 1616 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:30 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok for 1240 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:30 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 1744 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:30 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 2085 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Acoma for 826 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 794 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 2286 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 751 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:42 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Giri for 682 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:47 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 1017 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:47 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 1324 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:47 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok for 1110 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:47 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Acoma for 1216 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Aergon for 2891 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 1844 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 1298 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 7028 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok for 837 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Phaok for 1833 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 1529 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Laenyani for 2906 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Laenyani for 4340 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 751 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 1796 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 3710 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Giri for 942 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Borammer for 2800 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:03:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Borammer for 3425 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:10 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 1359 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:10 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 2229 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:10 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 667 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:10 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 1683 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:18 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Kazpin for 1975 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:18 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Kazpin for 7775 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:33 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 1551 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:33 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 647 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:33 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 1616 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:33 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 834 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:37 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 3304 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:37 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Acoma for 826 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:37 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 674 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:37 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Endiment for 1261 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Ardnasc for 1372 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 1115 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Acoma for 2516 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 920 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 1984 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Blurryd for 1606 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Endiment for 1261 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:38 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Endiment for 1755 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:46 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Veker for 818 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:46 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 1316 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:46 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Pauleleia for 2914 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:46 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 3014 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:04:47 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 6235 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:07 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 674 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:13 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Maruader for 1714 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:13 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 1974 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:35 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 1486 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:35 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Gromdelin for 6315 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:35 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 1324 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:35 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 1685 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:35 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Panga for 794 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:35 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Panga for 1184 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:36 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Hasseo for 1844 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:36 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Panga for 2744 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:50 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Blurryd for 660 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)
[Sat Aug 16 00:05:59 2008] A Zek loyalist hits Blurryd for 660 points of damage. (Wild Rampage)

It predominently hit tanks, then DPS/pets, and only once was a caster (cleric Kazpin) hit. You can disregard some of the hits towards the end of course, because as we started to wipe, agro/ramp/wild ramp will shift. Broadly speaking, tanks stand closer to a mob than dps (tanks try to get hit, dps try not to), and casters keep well back. I think there's enough evidence to suggest max melee range might work. It all depends how far that is though.

[Wwein]

[Fri Aug 15 23:45:19 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:45:38 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'So be it. Udengar's fate is in the hands of the god now. If you can slay him, then I will believe that you are in the right. If not, you will meet your ancestors and they will be shamed by your life and the manner of your death.'

[Fri Aug 15 23:46:14 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:46:33 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'So be it. Udengar's fate is in the hands of the god now. If you can slay him, then I will believe that you are in the right. If not, you will meet your ancestors and they will be shamed by your life and the manner of your death.'

[Fri Aug 15 23:48:03 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:48:23 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'So be it. Udengar's fate is in the hands of the god now. If you can slay him, then I will believe that you are in the right. If not, you will meet your ancestors and they will be shamed by your life and the manner of your death.'

[Fri Aug 15 23:53:21 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:53:38 2008] a Holmguard elite says 'So be it. Udengar's fate is in the hands of the god now. If you can slay him, then I will believe that you are in the right. If not, you will meet your ancestors and they will be shamed by your life and the manner of your death.'

[Fri Aug 15 23:48:28 2008] an attentive Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:48:48 2008] an attentive Holmguard elite says 'This is falsification and treachery! You are trying to slander one of our greatest leaders!'

[Fri Aug 15 23:53:58 2008] an attentive Holmguard elite says 'This is falsification and treachery! You are trying to slander one of our greatest leaders!'

[Fri Aug 15 23:46:37 2008] a cautious Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:46:53 2008] a watchful Holmguard elite says 'I might believe you, but can you do anything about it? I shall remain at my post and see if you can take action. If you can, I may even assist you.'

[Fri Aug 15 23:51:42 2008] a wary Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:51:58 2008] a watchful Holmguard elite says 'I might believe you, but can you do anything about it? I shall remain at my post and see if you can take action. If you can, I may even assist you.'

[Fri Aug 15 23:56:01 2008] a wary Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:56:18 2008] a watchful Holmguard elite says 'I might believe you, but can you do anything about it? I shall remain at my post and see if you can take action. If you can, I may even assist you.'

[Fri Aug 15 23:52:46 2008] a rapt Holmguard elite says 'What evidence is this, invader? Be quick or die.'
[Fri Aug 15 23:53:03 2008] a rapt Holmguard elite says 'This is falsification and treachery! You are trying to slander one of our greatest leaders!'


Based on these responses, it seems we can definitely predict the allegiance of a Holmguard elites based on their type. Here is the list of who is friend/neutral/foe, and how many responses we can base that theory on:

a cautious Holmguard elite - Turns into a watchful Holmguard elite (1/1)
a watchful Holmguard elite - Friend (3/3)

a wary Holmguard elite - Turns into a watchful Holmguard elite (2/2)
a watchful Holmguard elite - Friend (3/3)

a Holmguard elite - Neutral (4/4)

an attentive Holmguard elite - Foe (2/2)

a rapt Holmguard elite - Foe (1/1)


Given that there's been confusion in some posts about whether you can predict a Holmguard's allegiance, my best guess with the data we have:

a wary Holmguard elite - turns into a watchful Holmguard elite (maybe randomly turns into watchful/rapt?)
a watchful Holmguard elite - ALWAYS friendly
a Holmguard elite - ALWAYS neutral
an attentive Holmguard elite - ALWAYS foe
a rapt Holmguard elite - ALWAYS foe?

[Selvan]

It is my opinion that we need to try to get as many allied giants as possible, or at the very least kill as many unfriendly giants as we can before the main part of the event starts.

I think we should pull multiple giants, and have 3 to 4 off tanks waiting to occupy them. I heard someone suggest an assist for targeting letter turn in mobs, and another assist for attacking the ones who turn enemy. I think that is a wonderful idea. Ideally the MA for targeting letter turn in mobs will stay on that targer until the person called to do the turn in gives confirmation that they have the target before moving to the next MOB. Everyone should have a hot key saying the same thing to avoid confusion. Something like "I have my target". Another thing we should try to do is seperate these mobs if at all possible when we have more then one at camp. It has been my experience that when you try to hand something to a mob who is in a group, the hand off does not always go to the mob you have targeted. We want to make sure we are not wasting letters.

The biggest problems I can see with this are keeping it organized with many turn-ins going on all at once, and the possibility that we will have 4 mobs at camp and three of them turn enemy and must be dispatched at the same time.

Over all though I think it is best to get as many letters turned in as possible, and worth the risk of these two drawbacks.

Selvan

[Prettything]

everyone needs to drop invis BEFORE first pull
pullers should have two pull messages inc %T trash and inc %t leter mob. if pulling multiples a hotkey should be hit for each mob if possible... also please dont announce pull unless you know its inc.. i think a couple times inc was called and then no mobs apeared.. i know im a pain but it makes it hard to organise hand ins
IF we are pulling multiples it would be very useful if peopel said in channel hand in successfully completed.. i know a couple times more than one person got designated to hand in (i know i suck) and i started lossing track of who had letters left. it wasnt an issue since i have such a long list of names to choose from but it may be an issue in the future..
the letter mobs (and trash at that phase) were much easier than they were a year ago and heals can be kinda whatever. but we may need to come up with a better healing plan than "dont let peopel die" for the end guys.. (i know once again i suck)
_________________
And you can't fight the tears that ain't coming
Or the moment of truth in your lies
When everything feels like the movies
Yeah you bleed just to know you're alive

[Wwein]

Based on what you've said, I suggest we have the raid split in 3:

Pullers - The pullers work in a pass-along system, with one puller tagging a bunch, a second puller reducing these, a third reducing them more etc. With that pull style you get a line of mobs spread out. The method is to mezz/stun/root one mob, and let the rest come at you before FD/fading, and so on.

Sorters - The tank of this part of the raid tags the pulled mobs and non-dps holds them. A turn in assist keeps track of which mob needs to be handed a letter. If this assist is a tank, then they can tag back the mob a little in case there's several giants.

Killers - If a holmguard turns Foe, or if a non-holmguard is at the pullers, then the MT of the Killer's tags this giant back, and the killers kill it. Killers are off to the side of the sorters, and keep their distance to make life simpler. We'd probably have 90% of the raid in this section.

[Hasseo75]

Guild attemped this event and basically is the same strat with some differences:

1. All giants all pulled to statue
2. When all giants left pit we charge in and setup raid inside
3. Giants allies charge udengar as soon as he agro.
4. One zek loyalist is tanked and the other is kited

The result: wipe cuz kite failed .. however we got loyalist to 70% with only 30 ppl in raid and no message about giants gaining power, all fight udengar was busy with the "pets"

[Panga]

Hey all. I did some reflection on this and had a few things to say.

I mentioned that the pets stopped fighting at some point and walked home. Most likely, this was after all of the kiters who had aggro on Udengar himself died. As long as someone has aggro, the pets will keep fighting. This wasn't a problem because he engaged the pets on the NW side of the statue and did not re-aggro the raid, he just sat there.

If we want to be sure only one loyalist has aggro on the main raid force, just use a FDer as a medium (kiter aggros Udengar, FDer takes one loyalist, tank tags loyalist, FDer drops aggro). Unless the kiters train the raid the second loyalist shouldn't aggro regardless of the kiter's fate.

Finally, Hasseo, did you notice the same responses from giants during that raid? If we're confident enough, it would save time to pull attentive, wary and normal elites directly to the kill group. Ie, if we pull a watchful we know we can keep pulling others to the kill group. Not to mention it would save letters, allowing for multiple attempts (if there is no lockout).

[Imp]

[Hasseo75]

I found this in other forum:


At Statue. Step 1.
Udengar will begin giving a speech. While he is doing so, clear the area and pull in the red con guards that are standing outside the pulpit.

At Statue. Step 2.
Once he concludes, the mobs in the ampitheater leave. Make sure you are up at the statue to avoid agro'ing the throng of giants. After the rest leave, Udengar and his two bodyguards walk out and begin heading NE. Wait until he has gotten a bit away then agro. Udengar then becomes rooted with an aura knockback while the 2 guards charge.

At Theatre. Step 3.
Bring the guards into the ampitheater, kite one, and begin beating down the other. Do NOT try to slow the guards. If they are slowed, it reverse and instead hastes them making them significantly harder. Once the first dies, beat down the second. When the second dies, Udengar becomes unrooted and charges the raid. Just like the guards, do NOT slow Undegar or it he gets insanely powered up and AE ramps constantly.

At Theatre. Step 4.
When Udengar charges, about a dozen hammers spawn. They come in two types, "a hammer of zek" which are mezzable, and "an unswerving hammer of zek" which are not. When killed, more hammers respawn, so instead kill the unswerving until only mezzables remain and lock them down. Meanwhile pin Udengar in the hall leading to ampitheater and begin beating him down. He has AE rampage and can only be cast on from melee range, making life hell on casters. He has a short range AE, Apathy of Zek which increases melee damage taken. It is unresistable, with 8 corrution counters, and recast every 30 sec or so. Main tank should get a constant stream of corruption cures, but likely not worth trying to cure the entire raid.

At Theatre. Step 5.
At 50%, one of the guards respawns. Kite it around while taking Udengar down. Once dead, bring the guard in and kill him too.

Bolded part is VERY interesting imo

Also find a place to safely kite the second guard is a very important part

[Wwein]

Unless the loyalists are tethered, I'd personally want to kite the loyalist as far away as possible. So long as you have soe, and keep aware, you should be able to kite him anywhere you like. I'd be interested in what the loyalist does once it's out of memory-range. Would he warp back, walk, run, stay still, wonder off...?

[xenamten]

i didnt read the whole thred but i do rember on this fight not to slow any thing or it ae ramps all over the place

[Wwein]

http://www.ahraiding.org/modules.php?name=Raidomatic&page=ViewEncounterInfo&encounterid=235

I just finished writing up the first draft of the Udengar strat. As always, please let me know of any mistakes, amendments or additional information/questions.

This isn't the end of the debate though - the strats continue to evolve.

[Imp]

That post was sheer win Hasseo!

[Wwein]

Well done everyone for beating Udengar!

I wrote up a new strat based on all our experiences, especially during yesterday's win. Given the event is instanced, I have no problem with publishing it on Alla too for others to use to progress. If anyone has anything to add to it, please add your input!


________________________________________________________
1. Obtain at least 5 Letters of Evidence from killing Kangur in the 24 person raid. Those people need to make a hotkey of: /say I have evidence of Treason. Have them test it to make sure there are no typoes! Make a list of their names.

2. Buff up fully and INVIS in the regular Valdeholm, outside the entrance of the instance.

3. Once ready, everyone is instructed to zone in at once and immediately run the western route to the statue area. This route typically has fewer see invis, though make it clear that every mob should be right clicked during the run and on no account must anyone agro a see invis as you are on a 17 minute timer.

4. The gathering point is the SW corner of the statue area. If you are on a large flat space with the pulpit entrance and statue due east of you, you're at the right spot.

5. As soon as a tank and healer are in place, pull some trash. This is the single quickest way to get everyone in the correct area, bunched up tight.

6. Pull all the mobs from the outside of the pulpit one or two at a time, or whatever you can handle. Some of the Holmguard Elites are always befriendable, some are never befriendable, and some are random. 'a cautious Holmguard elite' and 'a wary Holmguard elite' are always befriendable. For these, announce from the top of the list for someone to target the mob, click their hotkey, and hand in their letter. From the moment anyone speaks their hotkey to the giant, he will freeze for 20 seconds waiting on a letter. If no letter is presented to him in this time, he will have to be killed. When done correctly, the giant becomes non-agro for the rest of the event, and his name changes to 'a watchful Holmguard elite'. If you have extra letters of evidence available, you can experiment with the other Holmguard Elites.

7. Keep track of the zone-wide messages listed above to know how much time you have left.

8. Once all the giants outside the pulpit are dead or turned into watchful, pull any trash around the statue to kill too. Once they are dead, spend any remaining time pulling and killing the trash from inside the pulpit - 'a Zek loyalist's are NOT trash! If you have any remaining time, you can start the next phase early by dealing with the loyalists.

9. After the 17 minutes are up, the loyalists will walk out of the pulpit and all your 'a watchful Holmguard Elite' will run into the pulpit and begin killing Udengar for you.

10. You will need 1 kite group for the second phase. A bard and healer are essential, and the rest of the group should contain all the knights you can spare, but at least 2. The knights will be your kiters, and the bard must simply keep them seloed. If there are any remaining trash giants in the pulpit, wait for them to leave now. Otherwise, grab the loyalists and begin the second phase.

11. Have the seloed knights tags the loyalists and start kiting them around the north side of the statue. The bard must keep them seloed, and the cleric must use HoT and PR spells only to prevent over agroing.

12. The raid will immediately tag one of the loyalists and start killing it. Do NOT slow the loyalists or Udengar! If someone accidentally does so, then every swing of the giant becomes a wild rampage for full damage. Have a few people load dispell in case of accidental slows.

13. Once one loyalist is dead, tag and kill the second in the same manner.

14. Each 'a watchful Holmguard Elite' will do between 10-20% damage to Udengar, and survive about 5 minutes. Once the 'a watchful Holmguard Elite' are dead, Udengar will begin summoning raiders to him, so keep a careful eye on the 'a watchful Holmguard Elite's HP. Once 'a watchful Holmguard Elite's are all dead, immediately put your raid tank on Udengar, with enough healers to keep him alive.

15. With the loyalists dead, begin killing Udengar in the pulpit. At approximately 75% he will start summoning hammers and will continue to do so until he dies. I do not know if these are timed, or repop however I never saw more than 5 or 6 alive at once, and at the end of the event there were about 8 or 9 hammer corpses. You can OT, chain kill, or kite these hammers as you feel fit. "a hammer of Zek" ARE mezzible, "an unswerving hammer of Zek" are NOT mezzible, each seem to have low HP (around 32k) but repop instantly. If opting to keep them mezzed, then have the "an unswerving hammer of Zek" continuously killed until only "a hammer of Zek" are up. Our method was to have an enterprising pally cast heals on the raiders being hit, he OTed when he had too many on him (around 5 or 6), and then kited from there (he was in the kite group and did have seloes). Each hammer seemed to hit for around 500-1k.

16. When Udengar reaches 50%, a third and final loyalist will pop. He popped immediately outside the pulpit's entrance, under the archway, though it may be random. He must be kited as before, until Udengar is dead.

17. Burn Udengar down. The hammers and loyalist will not depop on Udengar's death, however neither will repop either.

18. Kill the loyalist.

Note: Before doing this event I did a great deal of research and background reading. There are a lot of rumors about all debuffs having reversed effects on the loyalists and Udengar. These appear to be completely ficticious. Each mob had the full list of dots, ac debuffs, str debuffs, atk debuffs etc without any noticably negative effect whatsoever. However, when slow is cast on them it's impossible not to notice, as within a few seconds you'll be slipping in the blood of your fellow raiders.

[Hasseo75]

[Wwein]

Good points on both.

Our earlier two Udengar attempts it was only the wary and cautious that became ally. We didn't have a huge dataset, but it seemed like it would just be bad luck if the others didn't turn. I agree though it would be an improvement to hand in letters to them all, but for everyone to keep track of who are the undecided giants, who could go one way or the other.

Updating the hammers.