[Wwein]

A few people have expressed to me that enchanters hasven't had a new haste spell since SoF and that therefore we need to default certain runes so that we can all enjoy haste III. As for the rest of the spells, to my knowledge they are all upgraded in SoD - and remember that an SoD rk I is always a step above an SoF rk III.

Ethically I'm very against defaulting loot unless it becomes necessary to our success (such as if elg and endi left and we needed to twink our warriors fast to continue hitting the big targets). However if it's a popular decision then it's not really dictating, instead it becomes a democratic decision.

For reference, here is the list of SoF runes & spells, with the two in questions highlighted. If I'm missed any other important spells that don't receive SoD upgrades, please left me know:



Bard:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Song: Elddar's Dawnsong Rk. III, 2. Song: Amber's Last Lullaby Rk. III, 3. Song: Cantata of Restoration Rk. III, 4. Song: Bertoxxulous's Verse of Virulence Rk. III, 5. Song: Vyskudra's Chant of Disease Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Song: Garadell's Fatesong Rk. III, 2. Song: Dirge of the Darkvine Rk. III, 3. Song: Zeixshi-Kar's Chant of Frost Rk. III, 4. Song: Rhythm of Restoration Rk. III, 5. Song: Performer's Explosive Aria Rk. III, 6. Song: Chorus of Restoration Rk. III, 7. Song: Coldcrow's Spry Sonata Rk. III, 8. Song: Kildrukaun's Chant of Poison Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Song: Kirathas' Cleansing Clarinet Rk. III, 2. Song: Yowl of the Bloodmoon Rk. III, 3. Song: Command of Queen Veneneu Rk. III, 4. Song: Denon's Dirge of Devastation Rk. III, 5. Song: Tjudawos' Chant of Flame Rk. III (please upload this to Lucy)

Beastlord:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Salve of Feldan Rk. III, 2. Spell: Falrazim's Gnashing Rk. III, 3. Spell: Focus of Zott Rk. III, 4. ???, 5. Spell: Dragonscale Guard Rk. III, ???
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Daria's Mending Rk. III, 2. Spell: Spiritual Vivacity Rk. III, 3. Spell: Fever Surge Rk. III, 4. Spell: Bulwark of Tri'Qaras Rk. III, 5. Spell: Peerless Penchant Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Spirit of Jeswin Rk. III, 2. Spell: Jagged Torrent Rk. III, 3. Spell: Spiritual Epiphany Rk. III, 4. Spell: Lockfang Jaws Rk. III, 5. Spell: Vicious Ferocity Rk. III, 6. Spell: Spellbreaker's Bulwark Rk. III (please confirm order)

Berserker:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Tome of Tendon Sever Rk. III (please upload this to Lucy)
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Tome of Agitating Scream Rk. III, 2. Tome of Third Wind Rk. III, 3. Tome of Temple Strike Rk. III.
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Tome of Jarring Smash Rk. III

Cleric:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Blessing of Resolve Rk. III, 2. Spell: Solemn Remedy Rk. III, 3. Symbol of Kaerra Rk. III, 4. Spell: Ward of the Resolute Rk. III, 5. Spell: Aweshock Rk. III, 6. Spell: Yaulp IX Rk. III, 7. Spell: Mollify Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Temerity Rk. III, 2. Spell: Solemn Elixir Rk. III, 3. Spell: Divine Censure Rk. III, 4. Spell: Aura of Resolve Rk. III, 5. Spell: Ward of Requital Rk. III, 6. Spell: Divine Destiny Rk. III, 7. Spell: Fool the Fallen Rk. III, 8. Spell: Forbear Corruption Rk. III, 9. Spell: Shield of Vie Rk. III, 10. Spell: Solemn Light Rk. III, 11. Spell: Sound of Resonance Rk. III, 12. Spell: Sermon of Admonition Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Mark of the Devoted Rk. III, 2. Spell: Tectonic Upheaval Rk. III, 3. Spell: Vitiate Corruption Rk. III, 4. Spell: Silent Dictum Rk. III, 5. Spell: Indomitable Hammer of Zeal Rk. III, 6. Spell: Order of the Resolute Rk. III, 7. Spell: Armor of the Solemn Rk. III, 8. Spell: Kaerra's Mark Rk. III, 9. Spell: Hand of Temerity Rk. III, 10. Spell: Elixir of Atonement Rk. III, 11. Spell: Rallied Shield of Vie Rk. III, 12. Spell: Frantic Renewal Rk. III, 13. Spell: Word of Vivacity Rk. III

Druid:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Torrid Sunray Rk. III, 2. Spell: Tempest of the Stormborn Rk. III, 3. Spell: Torrential Hail Rk. III, 4. Spell: Nature's Calm Rk. III, 5. Spell: Beast's Bewitching Rk. III, 6. Spell: Spirit of the Stalwart Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Puravida Rk. III, 2. Spell: Sharp Eyes Rk. III, 3. Spell: Reaping Inferno Rk. III, 4. Spell: Chillvapor Breath Rk. III, 5. Spell: Viridifloral Bulwark Rk. III, 6. Spell: Ironwood Skin Rk. III, Spell: 7. Spell: Forbear Corruption Rk. III, 8. Spell: Skin to Mulch Rk. III, 9. Spell: Horde of Fireants Rk. III, 10. Spell: Viridithorn Coat Rk. III, 11. Spell: Annihilate the Aberrant Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Tectonic Upheaval Rk. III, 2. Spell: Gelid Frost Rk. III, 3. Spell: Sunsear Rk. III, 4. Spell: Equinox Brand Rk. III, 5. Spell: Chant of the Darkvine Rk. III, 6. Spell: Legacy of Viridithorns Rk. III, 7. Spell: Blessing of the Ironwood Rk. III, 8. Spell: Hoar Crystals Rk. III, 9. Spell: Mask of the Shadowcat Rk. III, 10. Spell: Adrenaline Swell Rk. III, 11. Spell: Crescentbloom Rk. III

Enchanter:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Shattered Consciousness Rk. III, 2. Spell: Opalescent Rune Rk. III, 3. Spell: Spellbound Shield Rk. III, 4. Spell: Erradien's Animation Rk. III, 5. Spell: Rune of Erradien Rk. III, 6. Spell: Mystifying Flash Rk. III, 7. Spell: Learner's Aura Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Silent Mind Rk. III, 2. Spell: Speed of Erradien Rk. III, 3. Spell: Din of Tashan Rk. III, 4. Spell: Cajole Rk. III, 5. Spell: Mystify Rk. III, 6. Spell: Seer's Cognizance Rk. III, 7. Spell: Aegis of Qandieal Rk. III, 8. Spell: Multichromatic Assault Rk. III, 9. Spell: Visions of Kirathas Rk. III, 10. Spell: Strangling Air Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Quelling Wave Rk. III, 2. Spell: Brimstone Tenement Rk. III, 3. Spell: Color Cataclysm Rk. III, 4. Spell: Whirling into the Hollow Rk. III, 5. Spell: Legion of Qandieal Rk. III, 6. Spell: Rune of the Deep Rk. III, 7. Spell: Haunting Whispers Rk. III, 8. Spell: Hastening of Erradien Rk. III, 9. Spell: Voice of Cognizance Rk. III, 10. Spell: Ward of Mystifying Rk. III, 11. Spell: Multichromatic Rune Rk. III, 12. Spell: Tears of Qandieal Rk. III, 13. Spell: Mind Oscillate Rk. III

Magician:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Malosinatia Rk. III, 2. Spell: Lavaskin Rk. III, 3. Spell: Prime Guard Rk. III, 4. Spell: Bolt of Molten Dross Rk. III, 5. Spell: Burnout VII Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Wand of Prime Transvergence Rk. III, 2. Spell: Rain of Molten Dross Rk. III, 3. Spell: Eidolic Guardian Rk. III, 4. Spell: Shock of Cineral Steel Rk. III, 5. Spell: Beam of Molten Dross Rk. III, 6. Spell: Aspect of Zomm Rk. III, 7. Spell: Annihilate the Aberrant Rk. III, 8. Spell: Searing Skin Rk. III, 9. Spell: Grounded Stance Rk. III, 10. Spell: Scorching Sands Rk. III, 11. Spell: Revival of Aenro Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Summon Gelid Paradox Rk. III, 2. Spell: Circle of Lavaskin Rk. III, 3. Spell: Torrent of Thunderbolts Rk. III, 4. Spell: Iceflame Tenement Rk. III, 5. Spell: Aegis of Kildrukaun Rk. III, 6. Spell: Prime Symbiosis Rk. III, 7. Spell: Hungry Flames Rk. III

Monk:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Tome of Shimmering Silhouette Rk. III (please upload this to Lucy)
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Tome of Third Wind Rk. III, 2. Tome of Astral Projection Rk. III, 3. Tome of Echo of Deception Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Tome of Crystalpalm Discipline Rk. III, 2. Tome of Moment of Tranquility Rk. III

Necromancer:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Ruinous Venin Rk. III, 2. Spell: Bulwark of Shadows Rk. III, 3. Spell: Eranon's Decay Rk. III, 4. Spell: Siphon Essence Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Sigil of the Aberrant Rk. III, 2. Spell: Anathema of Life Rk. III, 3. Spell: Visziaj's Grasp Rk. III, 4. Spell: Scent of Afterlight Rk. III, 5. Spell: Spine-Chilling Shriek Rk. III, 6. Spell: Spectral Ward Rk. III, 7. Spell: Shadowskin Rk. III, 8. Spell: Riftbone Manacles Rk. III, 9. Spell: Wintry Revival Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Auroral Darkness Rk. III, 2. Spell: Visziaj's Pallid Haze Rk. III, 3. Spell: Spectralside Rk. III, 4. Spell: Aegis of Kildrukaun Rk. III, 5. Spell: Mental Vivisection Rk. III, 6. Spell: Supplication of Blood Rk. III, 7. Spell: Visziaj's Command Rk. III, 8. Spell: Searing Shadow Rk. III

Paladin:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Solemn Touch Rk. III, 2. Spell: Solemn Force Rk. III, 3. Spell: Atonement Rk. III, 4. Spell: Benediction Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Radiant Light Rk. III, 2. Spell: Lesson of Contrition Rk. III, 3. Spell: Symbol of Bthur Rk. III, 4. Spell: Armor of Inexorable Faith Rk. III, 5. Spell: Solemn Cleansing Rk. III, 6. Spell: Armor of Decorum Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Bthur's Mark Rk. III, 2. Spell: Wave of Absolution Rk. III, 3. Spell: Brell's Earthen Aegis Rk. III, 4. Spell: Mark of the Saint Rk. III, 5. Spell: Oathbound Protector Rk. III, 6. Spell: Force of Timorous Rk. III

Ranger:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Shield of Spurs Rk. III, 2. Spell: Horde of Hornets Rk. III, 3. Spell: Dragonscale Aquifer Rk. III, 4. Spell: Drifting Haze Rk. III (please upload this to Lucy), 5. Spell: Skylight Sagacity Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Strength of the Gladewalker Rk. III, 2. Spell: Rimefall Bite Rk. III, 3. Spell: Cloak of Scales Rk. III, 4. Spell: Jolting Strikes Rk. III, 5. Spell: Potameid Balm Rk. III, 6. Spell: Gnarl of the Predator Rk. III, 7. Spell: Galvanic Ash Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Ravenscale Rk. III, 2. Spell: Eyes of the Peregrine Rk. III, 3. Spell: Heartsting Rk. III, 4. Spell: Protection of the Kirkoten Rk. III, 5. Spell: Deafening Blades Rk. III

Rogue:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Tome of Blinding Flare Rk. III, 2. Tome of Waylay Rk. III, ???
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Tome of Third Wind Rk. III, 2. Tome of Jugular Slash Rk. III, 3. Tome of Docent of Toxicity Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Tome of Pinpoint Weaknesses Rk. III, ???

Shadowknight:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Bond of the Blackwater Rk. III, 2. Spell: Blackwater Bite Rk. III, 3. Spell: Terror of the Soulbleeder Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Shroud of the Gloomborn Rk. III, 2. Spell: Blood of the Blackwater Rk. III, 3. Spell: Maladroit Minion Rk. III, 4. Spell: Expatiate Death Rk. III, 5. Spell: Grim Covenant Rk. III, 6. Tome of Umbral Carapace Rk. III, 7. Spell: Rigor Mortis Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Rotmarrow Spear Rk. III, 2. Spell: Revile Rk. III, 3. Spell: Drape of Corruption Rk. III, 4. Spell: Touch of the Soulbleeder Rk. III, 5. Touch of Kildrukaun Rk. III

Shaman:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Malosinatia Rk. III, 2. Spell: Vestax's Spear of Venom Rk. III, 3. Spell: Spirit of the Stalwart Rk. III, 4. Spell: Breath of Big Bynn Rk. III, 5. Spell: Spirit of Vehemence Rk. III, 6. Spell: Talisman of Vehemence Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Vegu's Faithful Rk. III, 2. Spell: Feralisis Rk. III, 3. Spell: Gemmi's Restoration Rk. III, 4. Spell: Bloodworg Focusing Rk. III, 5. Spell: Ancestral Hearkening Rk. III, 6. Spell: Halcyon Zephyr Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Chant of the Darkvine Rk. III, 2. Spell: Talisman of the Stalwart Rk. III, 3. Spell: Tundra Crumble Rk. III, 4. Spell: Pocus Rk. III, 5. Spell: Rancor of Agony Rk. III, 6. Spell: Vengeance of Kerafyrm Rk. III, 7. Spell: Talisman of the Bloodworg Rk. III, 8. Spell: Shade of Renewal Rk. III, 9. Spell: Thorn Wilting Rk. III

Warrior:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Tome of Armor of Draconic Runes Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Tome of Third Wind Rk. III, 2. Tome of Shield Reflect Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Tome of Whorl Blade Rk. III, 2. Tome of Sneer Rk. III.

Wizard:
Humming Finsternacht Rune - 1. Spell: Lure of Isaz Rk. III, 2. Spell: Bulwark of the Crystalwing Rk. III, 3. Spell: Tears of the Forsaken Rk. III, 4. Spell: Concussive Burst Rk. III, 5. Spell: Bulwark of Caella Rk. III, 6. Spell: Phase March Rk. III
Whirring Clockwork Rune - 1. Spell: Vsorug's Presence Rk. III, 2. Spell: Tranquil Harvest Rk. III, 3. Spell: Cloudburst Bolts Rk. III, 4. Spell: Leap of Static Bolts Rk. III, 5. Spell: Aspect of Zomm Rk. III, 6. Spell: Pyrolure Rk. III, 7. Spell: Laminae of the Crystalwing Rk. III, 8. Spell: Leap of Arclight Rk. III, 9. Spell: Rolling Lightning Rk. III, 10. Spell: Etherroot Guard Rk. III
Glowing Prismatic Rune - 1. Spell: Crystalwing Guard Rk. III, 2. Spell: Pyroclastic Eruption Rk. III, 3. Spell: Glacial Collapse Rk. III, 4. Spell: Euthanos' Flameblade Rk. III, 5. Spell: Ethereal Incineration Rk. III, 6. Spell: Claw of Selig Rk. III, 7. Spell: Telejasz Rk. III, 8. Icicle Storm Rk. III, 9. Spell: Inizen's Fire Rk. III, 10. Spell: Netherstep Rk. III
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[Zacatac]

[Zacatac]

I guess my question would be to the enchanters (and maybe the melee), does the extra level really make a difference?

Hastening of Erradien Rk. II
Increase AGI by 92
Increase DEX by 77
Increase ATK by 81
Increase Attack Speed by 68%
Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 28% with All Skills
Critical Damage Mob(5)


Hastening of Erradien Rk. III
Increase AGI by 98
Increase DEX by 82
Increase ATK by 86
Increase Attack Speed by 68%
Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 29% with All Skills
Critical Damage Mob(6)

[Kalakob]

One might see minor improvement. Really though folks are going to need to look and see if they have any spells actually worth getting from SoF, there should be quite a few of classes whose benefit would be unnoticable to the point of foolishness to try and attain them ahead of others.

I think it might be a benefit if we did do some defaulting, but it would likely cause a detriment as well. I know quite a few of our folks don't really like to do the research but consulting your class leaders on the validity of getting old rk3 spells would probably be wise if you don't intend to research.

[Prettything]

wheres the option to default one and roll on the other.. they usually drop 2 of the same type i thought??? or one per nigt or somehting?
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[Suegar]

Warriors get nothing good in SoF so we shouldnt roll um, ever ;p as to the other yah i think the haste is worth defaulting and I voted that way

[elric]

afaik, pally's don't get anything that isn't upgraded in SoD.

[Hasseo75]

SKs dont get anything worth.
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[Wwein]

For rangers 2. Spell: Horde of Hornets Rk. III is the only useful one. It's one of our two insta-cast dots and therefore one we continue to use. I suspect the same will be true of other dot casters, along with some other misc spells that don't share timers with their upgraded counterpart.

Zac if any of the spells you listed are particularly valueable to mages I'm happy to add them to the list as I respect your judgement.

The main benefit of the haste III is the line:
Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 29% with All Skills

I don't know the specifics of crit damage or how it effects the math, but here's my noobish understanding for others to expand on. On the last named raid mob I did 250k normal damage and 700k crit damage. With this haste instead, 1% of the swings (perhaps 2.5k worth of damage) that produced the 250k would have critted instead. For arguement's sake let's say crit damage is always twice normal damage, this new haste would have added 2500 damage to my total.

Honestly I don't believe it's a very big dps boost even when someone with a better understanding of the dps posts. On the flipside though, the large majority of SoF III spells will instantly be replaced by the rk I spells from SoD vendors, or else the rk II baz-bought SoD spells costing 5kpp. A lot of people are looting first and seeing what they get from it later without any research. Sure, many people don't like to research so would rather do things this way, but it is a shame when these runs are completely wasted. I like Kala's suggestion that the class leaders run the research so the raiders can go to them about it.
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[Southpaw]

I'm all for Haste rk3, as the only useful ones for rogue would be Prismatic runes and even then it would only be a 2% boost to BS damage

(SoF) Pinpoint weakness Rk3 :Pinpoints the vulnerabilities of your target, increasing the damage they take from backstabs by 10 percent for 30 secs (5 ticks).

(SoD) Pinpoint Vitals Rk2: Pinpoints the vulnerabilities of your target, increasing the damage they take from backstabs by 8 percent for 30 secs (5 ticks).

[Zacatac]

[Wwein]

[Wwein]

[Zacatac]

Not going to try the math, sorry :p

I'll just say I use Aegis of Kildrukaun all the time on raids, buffing pet pre-fight and sometimes during the fight to help keep him alive. When mobs hit for 10k, the 100% rune absorbing 8 or 9 hits is far greater than using a mage heal. Remember, my pet is 1000+ dps on his own. So keeping him alive is important to me.

I rarely use the pet heal spell except as a CURE when my pet has some major DoT on him. It's much easier for me to pop a pet heal AA button and toss another Aegis on him than try to waste time/mana the actual heal spells.

[Wwein]

We do especially want winners of loot to use their wins on raids, but loot can also be thought of as 'prizes', which may have little raid benefit but be useful outside of raids. So for me personally, there's no TSS rk III spells and just one SoF rk III spell I would use in or out of raids. I want the spells so I can check off my list (I aim to have every spell I can possibly get), but I can never justify winning them over people that would.

The fact that mages get spells that they would use (during or out of raids) is sufficient reason for them to roll. Lvl 85 rangers have no purpose winning SoF spell runes (apart from that one dot I mentioned) as they will go straight to the spellbook and never ever be used.

Noone in AH is malicious, which is one of the reasons I love it. People rolling on spells they won't ever use isn't out of greed, it's because they just plum don't realise their class gets nothing from it.

I'm now leaning to the idea of telling the class leaders to write up a list of spells their class wants (posting and using the list above works fine) and then send tells during raids so their class members realise when the rune they're bidding on is 100% useless to them. They can also remind class members to roll on runes they badly need but don't realise.
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[Kreavan]

Beastlord:
Humming Finsternacht Rune -
1. Spell: Salve of Feldan Rk. III (Increased Heal which is targetable. Benficial)
2. Spell: Falrazim's Gnashing Rk. III (Useless)
3. Spell: Focus of Zott Rk. III (Group Benefit when no Unity around. No Raid benefit unless no shaman buffs available)
4. ???
5. Spell: Dragonscale Guard Rk. III (Useless)

Whirring Clockwork Rune -
1. Spell: Daria's Mending Rk. III (Better pet heal, but not too needed IMO)
2. Spell: Spiritual Vivacity Rk. III (Beneficial in groups. Raid benefit sometimes if some prefer this instead of Brells)
3. Spell: Fever Surge Rk. III (Higher dmg for insta-cast DoT.)
4. Spell: Bulwark of Tri'Qaras Rk. III (Useless)
5. Spell: Peerless Penchant Rk. III (Useless since better version in SoD)

Glowing Prismatic Rune -
1. Spell: Spirit of Jeswin Rk. III (Higher pet proc. Pretty good dps increase)
2. Spell: Jagged Torrent Rk. III (Highly used ice nuke, so good dps increase)
3. Spell: Spiritual Epiphany Rk. III (Increased Mana/Hp regen buff. Beneficial on raids & groups)
4. Spell: Lockfang Jaws Rk. III (Useless)
5. Spell: Vicious Ferocity Rk. III (Useless)
6. Spell: Spellbreaker's Bulwark Rk. III (Useless)
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[Kreavan]

Yeah Eomund,

I was thinking about that. I hate how Beastlord spell names are pretty similar so sometimes gets confusing. The only one I can see which would be beneficial is the following:

Glowing Prismatic Rune -
1. Spirit of Jeswin Rk. III -> Spirit of Vaxztn Rk. II
2. Jagged Torrent Rk. III -> Frigid Lance Rk. II
3. Spiritual Epiphany Rk. III -> Spiritual Edification Rk. II

Those 2 ice nukes are on different timers, so I can cast each back to back. In my typical spell lineup, I usually will have Jagged Torrent, Frigid Lance, and 1 poison nuke as my nuke lineup. then I also have a poison and a disease insta-cast dot as well. All 5 spells on different timers
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[Wwein]

I was using the vote as a tool to gauge opinion rather than to write the policy. However, due to it's overwhleming popularity, we'll default whirring and glowing runes to encs until they have their haste spells.

Ultimately I want to draw up a list of useful spells for each class and then try to figure a way to let only those that would benefit from the runes to roll.
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[Hasseo75]

[Wwein]

Well I just edited both our posts so You look silly and not me, nyeah nyeah!
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