Tiers Tier and No Tiers

Aleax · Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: Tiers Tier and No Tiers

While I don't care either way, I wonder if doing this under general forums is the right place... I guess just because we poll doesn't mean it is set in stone.

This poll is ONLY to determine the general consensus amongst the AH population to help the officers decide on policy.
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Odnz · Squad Leader Joined: Apr 12, 2009 Posts: 102

by voting no that means i can quit,come back for 1 night, and steals your hard earned rare uber loot! ... dont forget!

so vote no!... or yes!

elric · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:36 am Post subject:

Odnz, If you comes back and steals my loots, I trains you till you're level 1 Mad

On a serious note, aye, Aleax. At first I was all for a tier reset, but after thinking about it rationally, I now have my doubts.

Since AH depends on it's members to raid, I was curious to see their opinion, as was Aergon and others.

Herkybevo · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:00 am Post subject:

You know my opinion Elric, and we'll leave it at that.
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Sendalor · After Hours Member Joined: Sep 17, 2009 Posts: 134

how bout a mix....after 40 raids cut there tier in half instead of all the way then after another 40 half again then 3rd timee 0 it out? just been tryin to think of somethin everyone will be good with and thats best thing i can come up with /shrug
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Elrico · Squad Leader Joined: May 18, 2004 Posts: 199

It depends,

If someone knows they will be away for 3-4weeks, or approximately 40 raids, then they can make provisions ahead of time so that their tier is not reset. It is not difficult to drop a PM to a SL if it is that important to them.

If someone simply chooses not to raid because they are doing other things and misses 40 raids, then by all means reset their tier. As noted already, we are a raiding organization not simply a social club. We need members to show up consistently when possible in order for the organization as a whole to advance.

Summary:

miss raids due to RL issues: no reset (provided SL contacted in advance)
miss raids due to choice: reset

Kreavan · Class Leader Joined: Apr 03, 2009 Posts: 401 Location: TX

I chose "No", but my answer was bias due to my tier being reset recently. Having that done really swayed my decision on coming back or not. My playtime has always been sporadic with GF, Work, School, and Projects. So working a tier up to a fair amount to have it reduced to 1 kinda put a sour taste in my mouth.

However, I do see how other people who play more frequently can see it as a bad thing with people popping in to win a loot and disappear again. Point being though, people who play more will have more tiers and win more frequently. So, really removing the tier reset shouldn't ruffle feathers with other players anyway since they've been winning left and right.

Just my humble thoughts Smile

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Hasseo75 · Officer Joined: Feb 06, 2008 Posts: 1260 Location: MX

elric · Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:05 am Post subject:

Interesting ideas.

That said, how can we reward folks that DO show up?

Elrico · Squad Leader Joined: May 18, 2004 Posts: 199

In my humble opinion, people that do show up are already being rewarded. They gain tier quickly and when they get to the front of the line, they get to spend their DKP on nice items. All is well on the world.

Seems to me is that the only issue here is the request/need for some sort of automated mechanism to remind folks when they are about to miss 40 raids. Such a module already exists to remind applicants when they have missed too many raids and are about to be removed from the applicant list. It shouldn't be too difficult to port that over and modify it to watch member status and send a warning when they get to about 30 missed raids. Members can then either make an effort to show up at one of the next several nights to maintain their tiers, or drop an PM to a SL to inform them that they will be missing the raids due to whatever reason. Short of that, then their tier gets reset.

One exception though. If your reason for not participating is that your burnt on raids, then that should not be a justifiable excuse. RL issues that prevent you from playing at all or just not during AH raid times, then you are excused. But if your online during the raid time and choose not to participate, then your tier should be reset. If it is important to you and you plan to come back eventually, then 1 out of 40 raids won't kill you if you really want to preserve your spot in line.

Gromdelin · Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject:

I'm voting to keep the status quo here. Not because it's a perfect system, but because I haven't read any really compelling arguments to change it. Having said that, I do think that if an e-mail reminder could be sent when a player reached some set point (say, 30-35 missed raids or so) it could be a very good thing.

Divinax · After Hours Member Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 45

It was back on 4/12/09 that the Tier reset was changed from 20 to 40. That was primarily due to AH knocking down the Fabled targets like bowling pins. Lately, the wins haven't been as plentiful, yet Tiers are liberally awarded for trash clears and other logical reasons besides a kill.

Are folks losing interest in the selection of targets that is contributing to their extended absences; competing guild activities or lockouts; the Holiday season; upcoming launch of UF; or RL priorities? Whatever it is, attendence seems to be drifting downward. Maybe it's time to consider raising the Tier reset a tad, say to 50. However, if you think that eliminating it all together would help, then I'd say do away with it and return to the straight DKP bid system.

Regular attendence should be encouraged, and rewarded. Even if that means 1 raid night a week, every 2 weeks, or whatever works for an individual. The lack of some sort of incentive will take us back to frustrating nights when insufficient numbers to form a raid occur more often than not.

I agree with several who have posted, stay away by choice, risk Tier reset. It's just too easy to post that you will be away for a week or three, and preserve your Tiers.

Pauleleia · Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject:

Ok, here I sit looking at my raids missed after not being able to get decent playtime for....awhile. I have just crossed over the 40 limit and am at 42. I am sad but agree with the reset. I have simply just taken some time off. I am coming back and will restart once again.

On another note what have I missed in the last three weeks or so?

Eric (Pauleleia)

Southpaw · After Hours Member Joined: Jun 18, 2006 Posts: 59

Ive had my teir set twice or so i think, But its because work keeps me away from Most AH raid times ( unless i'm sick, on vacation but staying home) or somehow manage to find the time to get in for a raid or two. I dont mind the teir reset but i can see how having it reset will turn peoples noses away because they now have to build teir back up.

Sresa · Class Leader Joined: Aug 31, 2008 Posts: 24

Okay, here is my 2 copper on this whole thing.

If a person has a real-life issue come up (like, I dunno, getting a new job where the training hours interfere with raid time, and you know you're going to be gone for a fixed time, like say 3 weeks...), then they should be able to speak to a leader and ask nicely for thier tier to be frozen.

This would mean having 1. A legit reason to freeze tiers, and not just "I want to run around on my alt for a while". And 2. Having a set time frame to provide the leader with, not just " for the foreseeable future".
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~Sresa

Wit has truth in it; wisecracking is simply calisthenics with words.
[Dorothy Parker]

Zacatac · Officer Joined: Nov 14, 2008 Posts: 1265

It seems a lot of people would like to put rules on when and when not to reset the tiers.

I haven't seen anyone post "because I'm raiding with RoV now and that takes up most of my time" as a reason not to reset tier.

So, we are back to the original post conflict really. I think it has to be either/or, and not making a list of rules to be the deciding factor.

P.S. Wwein had his Tier reset.
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Elrico · Squad Leader Joined: May 18, 2004 Posts: 199

There would be only 1 rule..

Rule 1:
In order to preserve your tiers during extended absence due to RL limitation, contact a SL via PM and give brief summary of situation including the following:

1. reason for absence. (why you are unable to attend AH raids)
2. expected duration.
3. time frame for next update of status.

End of rule.

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The only acceptable reason for excused prolonged absence is inability to be online or have limited functionality during AH raid times due to RL circumstances.

Any other reason such as guild conflicts, burn out, want to play alt, or lockout issues can be resolved by making other choices.

Guild targets conflict with AH targets - change your AH main.. your guild main gets upgrades via guild raids, and your AH main gets upgrades via AH raids.

Burn out - not much I can say there except 1 raid every 3-4 weeks won't kill you.

Want to play alt - fine.. that is your choice... have fun.

Lockout issues - if your hitting enough targets with someone else that give you enough lockouts that you loose your tier, then you should consider changing your AH main. Or, stop hitting those targets with other people and hit them with AH.

Guild raid times conflict with AH raid time - AH does not encourage you to choose AH over your Guild. If this is the situation, then it really doesn't matter because your guild raids should come first and it is an easy choice.

It's all a matter of choice... EXCEPT where RL leaves you no choice.

elric · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:46 am Post subject:

Thank you for the very valid points raised here. Please post if you're concerned about this.

Remember, AH exists to serve it's members, not vice versa.

Trust me, We're discussing this in the officer forum.

Aleax · Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:43 am Post subject:

Personally, I am voting for status quo. My reasoning has to do with what I consider a very high number used for the reset. The number 40 was picked during fabled season when we were hitting 4 targets a night. Last night, we hit 1 target, usually its 2 these days. (( 40 / 2 ) / 4 ) = 5 weeks between resets. FFS, if you cannot make ONE raid in 5 weeks, you need to be honest with yourself and us and move along..
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Cantinal · After Hours Member Joined: Aug 06, 2005 Posts: 45

My thought on this is still the same. Raiding to get your tiers up and then having other things to do and then you come back and get ONE and only one loot. Even if it is the first time that item has droped if you only raid once every month or few weeks that means it will take you a year to get your tiers back.

Now, I also agree that the fact that people cant spend 10 min in a day to look at this site once a week or every 2 weeks is just wrong but I think it is more then wrong to essentially steal someones work because you are afraid they will take one piece of hypothetical loot some random time in the future.

I missed voting on this but I would have voted no...

I raid with RoV... and that is PART of the reason that I sometimes find it hard to raid for another 3 hours after just doing 3 to 4...

And truthfully, if I would come with that charater to a raid I prob would not need anything from the raid but I am coming to help because I do like to help and get other people uber loot x...

Still... I personally feel and my opinion is just that... but, do you honestly think that people would come back more just because the tier goes down ?