Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like theme manager, comments configuration and post comments with your name.
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: A big warning
I was taking a look in SOE forums and there are some threads related to the post made by Shieara about goals and the post about targets and the low numbers on night raids.
The posts are showing a general concern about mid-tier guilds fate due low attendance on raids and can not be able to progress. There are several reasons posted but the main is: Crystallos/BB/LGuk groupable gear is better for most classes that the loot that they can get in raids (DPoB, DK, ToB even TSS) so they prefer to group in crystallos. Needless to say that AC and weapons on groupable gear is just crap.
IMO this is one big important factor in our low numbers besides overlap schedule with invididual guilds raid time. If this is happening to guilds and alot are just folding then it must be a huge warning for us.
Joined: Apr 01, 2005 Posts: 1202 Location: West Virginia
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:30 am Post subject:
I think that those are some valid points but for me I dont really raid for the gear, even though almost all of it is an upgrade for me. I do it because I like to see new content and new encounters and I think most of the AH members are so far up the scale on gear that they are just doing these for fun to help out others, WHICH ROCKS and thank you all.
I mean some of it is not, Last Blood/epic 2.0 globe comes to mind, and I think as long as the leaders keep it fresh and we do new things from time to time this organization should be around for a long time, or at least I hope so. I have been able to see content and encounters with AH that I would have never seen. I have a family of 4 kids under 7, a wife, and limited time to play. The hours that AH activities take place are about the only hours I get to play, so thank you all again and keep up the great work, All of you.
I have met, in my opinion out side of my own guild because EGers rock, some of the most talented and fun to play with toons that I have ever played with in EQ in this band of misfits(lovingly). Thanks to all that make it happen every week, hope to see you all in game. _________________ 85 Ranger|85 Shaman
Plus 85 Cleric
This is a pretty old discussion, and although it began back in Demi (where raids took Forever to learn, let alone farm), it's particularly picked up with the recent revamps and comparitively easy access to cryst. There's a few points that are worth mentioning too:
1. Sony have been pretty good recently about recognizing complaints and fixing it. So I imagine they'll be looking closely at this.
2. Some of the group gear Seems far better, but really isn't. I've seen plenty of cryst gear with 500hp and a flood of mods. However, the AC is low, and none of the mods are more than 2 or 3. Compare Cloak of Wailing Woes to Sentient Prismatic Scale Shroud for a DPS class. I own both, and wear the latter, but Only because i'm a hybrid class. However once you accept that the extra 250hp is a fraction of a mob hit, and that the damage shield mit/atk/regen are pretty redundant, then the two are really not that far apart. In fact with an alternate haste item, you could argue the anguish cloak is actually far better for a pure DPS class. Regardless though, the point is the items are actually very similar, even though cryst is SIX expansions later!
3. A lot of folks raid for the fun, companionship, content, and other intangible benefits. I'd love for us to get higher rewards for raiding, but I'm also glad there's more to it than just items.
While ac (and to a lesser degree, weaponry) suck on SoF group gear, some argue that you need the latest focii. Well imo this is true of one focii only - pet focus. I tested out focii lvl tappering a few weeks ago and found something very interesting. We've all seen Alla state that "Max Level(xx) (lose 5% per level over cap)", but never really known what that meant. Does it mean that a 30% mod would decrease, like 30 - 25 - 20 -15 - 10 - 5 - 0, or maybe 5% of the mod decreases, like 30 - 28.5 - 27.075 - 25.72125 etc? Well I sat down with a few different haste mods and a calculator and figured it out. You find 5% of the mod (so for a 30 spell haste, 5% of that is 1.5), and the focii reduces in power That much per level. In other words, if I am casting a lvl 80 spell with a 6 second cast time, then the math looks like:
Lvl 70, 30% spell haste mod: 30*0.05=1.5. 1.5*(80-70)=15. 30-15=15. 100-15=85%. 85% of 6 is 5.1 seconds.
Lvl 75, 15% spell haste mod: 15*0.05=0.75. 0.75*(80-75)=3.75. 15-3.75=11.25. 100-11.25=88.75%. 88.75% of 6 is 5.325 seconds.
Lvl 80, 12% spell haste mod: 12*0.05=0.6. 0.6*(80-80)=0. 15-0=15. 100-15=85%. 85% of 6 is 5.1 seconds.
Yup, if the formulars are the same for the other fociis too, this means that a 30% lvl 70 focii is identical to a 12% lvl 80 focii for lvl 80 spells...and BETTER for all spells under lvl 80!
Last edited by Wwein on Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:
Mod 3's and heroics are HUGE FYI, so the loss in AC, and some Mod 2's, really isn't as big as you make it seem.
SoF is one of the worst expansion for EQ, itemization wise, that I can think of outside of GoD.......it is the reason I'm in WoW now:-) Sitting in some tedious, boring T3+ group camp for an extremely rare drop while acquiring less than zero experience, due to the difficulty level, isn't exactly my idea of fun and the fact that AH was not able to progress beyond what was obtainable in that group environment left me with nothing to do that I found interesting.
SOE *could* fix the itemization problem, but I doubt they will. Their staff is practically down to nothing and their budget is gone.....they would need far more resources to develop a new expansion that addresses every level of the game.
Sitting in some tedious, boring T3+ group camp for an extremely rare drop while acquiring less than zero experience, due to the difficulty level, isn't exactly my idea of fun and the fact that AH was not able to progress beyond what was obtainable in that group environment left me with nothing to do that I found interesting.
This is exactly what i talking about.
And for the record i refuse to follow that tier armor path hehe ...
Last edited by Hasseo75 on Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total
I will have to agree to disagree with you about focus effects Wwein, but I will do that completely.
Hit points mean little to me, and AC even less. and while mana on an item means something, focus is king. For a wizard, all we do is dps. We have no other use to a group or a raid, so less dammage means less usefulness.
If I were to take a level 70 item with 30% focus to fire (net 15% after dropoff at level 80) over the groupable 35% fire item from SoF, I would need to get my head examined. 20% extra dammage on a 30K crit is significant. This is why those who rely on spells as their DPS do not bid on Bazu stones. Last Bloods are somewhat useful, but I would still take the higher focus of SOF gear over the 1/4 of a spells mana cost from the extra mana a last blood aug would give any day.
What is worse is that in the last two expansions they have split dammage type focus to different pieces. There are no more 30% bonus to all direct dammage spell foci. This forces me to replace much of my gear every expansion.
SoF has been the toughest expansion on pure DPS casters who raid mid tier stuff. There are very few items that drop from the stuff we raid that I even consider bidding on.
There are however, other reasons to raid than just aquiring loot, and I have a few of those.
Selvan
P.S.
Oh and just to make clear, a wizard always uses his highest level nuke of that focus type, so besides specialty spells like lures, I only use level 80 spells, so the thougt that the focus decay dropoff works out to better for lower level spells does not apply very much for wizards.
S
Last edited by Selvan on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:20 pm; edited 3 times in total
Mod 3's and heroics are HUGE FYI, so the loss in AC, and some Mod 2's, really isn't as big as you make it seem.
Huh? The AC is very similar between those two items, and the Anguish cloak has 10 CE and 25 Accuracy, Vs the Cryst one of 5 CE and no other DPS mods. Yeah there's the heroics, but from a DPS point of view I'd be suprised if the Anguish cloak wasn't the better DPS of the two, though overall I do opt for the Cryst cloak.
That was just an example of a pretty extreme case on any account. Sony releases an expansion, and the new gear seems phenominal, and we ditch our old raid stuff in favor for the new group stuff. This happens over and over again.
Culd you're getting a negative outlook in your old age mister! When I saw the revamp gear dropping my thought was "great, now AH can stock up on that stuff and we get to hit new targets!". I really don't mind if things go cheap or rot on some raids, so long as something was useful for someone. And we've certainly not run out of targets with loot we need. As a raidforce we're spending 30-50dkp a night, and earning 25-40dkp.
Quote:
Sitting in some tedious, boring T3+ group camp for an extremely rare drop while acquiring less than zero experience, due to the difficulty level, isn't exactly my idea of fun and the fact that AH was not able to progress beyond what was obtainable in that group environment left me with nothing to do that I found interesting.
AH raiding is my favorite thing to do in EQ and I enjoy it [almost] every night. Personally I find nothing more boring than grinding/camping endlessly for drops/faction/quests. I want to log on, DO something, and then go back to RL. I find EQ more fun now than its ever been, and its because I'm able to cut out all that boring stuff; I just get to play now.
If we just had more healers around, things would be perfect.
Yeah I do agree that casters have it the worst. And yeah now I think about it, the damage focii have remained the same, only with increase lvl caps. I was thinking more of the reinforcement-type focii (buff extension, spell haste, etc). Have you tried to test old/new damage fociis? I expect they do decay in the same way as the spell haste I tested, but I can't know for sure without testing it
Because of the Focii lvls (and splitting the spell types up) it's really made it hard to find content for caster people. If you can think of any targets that would be of specific use to caster folk, please let me know!
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:03 am Post subject:
Problem is, most people at that level should already be cap'd, and then some, on most mod 2's, so their relevancy is diminshed and mod 3s become more important. As a tank, I was well over my mod 2 caps in avoidance/shielding and the melee mods were just fluff outside of my primary role, so I could do without them.
As a side note, those heroics are quite significant....I forget what, exactly, each does, but I do recall that +heroic STR = extra AC over the softcap (think shielding AC, which is HUGE for tanks). You may want to look into what the melee heroics actually do for DPS.
As for being grumpy...yeah, that's me:-)
Oh, and if you want something fun to do, without tedious camping and such, go to WoW:-) You can actually achieve stuff without sacrificing your soul to the sun god ra (or is it rah?).
I agree with Wwein the important thing is than no matters if upgrade come from group or raid, if we have better Gear we can take better raids and betters nameds, like yesterday we beat ToB MMA with 2 Clerics, 1 of them boxed, grats AH, we are doing great.
Yeah I do agree that casters have it the worst. And yeah now I think about it, the damage focii have remained the same, only with increase lvl caps. I was thinking more of the reinforcement-type focii (buff extension, spell haste, etc). Have you tried to test old/new damage fociis? I expect they do decay in the same way as the spell haste I tested, but I can't know for sure without testing it
I have tried it and it does degrade just as you have described. As an example I have the shield with magic focus from Anguish, with a 45% (Thundar of Anguish) increase to magic to level 70. I also wear the magic focus hat from the SoF group gear, with a 35% focus to level 80. (Arcane Detonation).
At level 80 the Hat provides a 35% spell damage bonus, and the shield provides a 22.5% spell damage bonus. The focus on that shield is useless, but I have not been lucky enough to replace it yet.
In testing lower level spells, the shield will provide fucus on spells up to level 74 and the hat takes over focus for spells level 75 and over as expected. so the drop off is pretty quick, and considering I only use level 80 spells.................
As for mobs to help casters with focii, there are none unless you wish to try SoF raid content. There will be some fableds in the LoY (I think it is LoY this year) which will have focii up to what will be the current level cap. I have noticed though that those mobs are usually not attempted because fabled gear that help tanks and clerics help the raid force far better.
Selvan
Last edited by Selvan on Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
Well there is a discrepency then unfortunately - the 45% anguish mod would be reduced to 22.5% under my formula: 0.05*(80-70)=50% reduction, I.e. 50% of 45 = 22.5% mod. Was the 12.5% a typo? If not I'll have to find some damage focii and try to create a new formula for that.
And nu uh about the fabled targets being picked for tanks/clerics! I was just a regular member back in the Fabled period this year, but I was out scouting every night. We basically hit whatever fabled were up, so long as we had enough to attempt it. This year I'll be able to pick and choose targets, and althought there'll be high competition for targets again (maybe higher than last night), if we get a choice I will definitely look to get upgrades for everyone. Noone in AH is forgotten or unappreciated!
Yes it was a typo. it should have read 22.5. I will correct that i my post.
And no I was not accusing AH of skiping targets, just giving my experience of what I have seen in the raid forces I have been with. I was unable to raid with AH during the fabled period very much last year, because I was away for training with my work for a month. I can't even speak to how AH picks fabled targets. I think I was only able to catch two raids with my lap top from the motel room with AH for fableds, and I was not raiding with AH the previous year.
I am also not saying that the method of choosing targets with the other raid forces I have been with (clerics and tanks first) is even a bad thing. All raid forced only move as fast as the tanking and healing crew can handle. If you gear up DPS completely you can not move to harder targets if the tanks can not stand the hits and the clerics can not heal them. All in all that was not any kind of complaint (and certainly not one towards AH, because I was not around for the fableds), but just an observation I chose to make.
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject:
I can say, with absolute certainty, that we picked fableds based on what we could handle more than anything else....if it was up and we actually had enough peeps to kill it, we attempted it. There was no other motive that I know of (and I was fairly in the know given I was running things with vudu and wend and we are all on teamspeak:-)
BTW, I just read this on another forum Ww:
Quote:
1 HDEX = +0.1% to Parry/Block (Monk/Beast block, not Shield Block)/Riposte Fire Rate
1 HAGI = +0.1% to Dodge Fire Rate (not actual skill-based evasion, since actual is the resultant of the multiplication given prior skills checked)
Enough of them is a sick result, such that enough could be > AC differences. I don't know how much that is the case. Simply because survival order should go Avoid > Mitigate > Absorb.
Such that I'd really consider HAGI/DEX to be > AC, thus:
[quote="Culdahl"]I can say, with absolute certainty, that we picked fableds based on what we could handle more than anything else....if it was up and we actually had enough peeps to kill it, we attempted it. There was no other motive that I know of (and I was fairly in the know given I was running things with vudu and wend and we are all on teamspeak:-)
[quote]
Yes I believe you completely. I am sure targets were picked just as you say they were.
I thought I was clear that my comment was not a complaint in any way, and also it was an observation of how raid forces work in general, and not in any way a comment of how AH has operated. I will again state that I have never been around with AH for fableds, and can not speak as to what they raided.
I guess I am somehow not making myself clear, but am not sure how to make my position any clearer lol.
I will say that I have always been happy with what has been chosen for raids when I have been along for AH events. But I will hold to my observation that in the raid forces I have been with targets are chosen for the good of the raid force, and not the individual in all of my experience. It is my feeling that that is the best way to advance a raid force, and I wish that it will continue that way.
Joined: Jun 02, 2005 Posts: 1019 Location: Camas, WA
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject:
No worries Selv; my point was just that our targets have always been determined by raid composition due to the very nature of AH's player base. In essence, we couldn't favor any class even if we wanted to because we don't have the people to pick and choose targets as we wish:-( I do agree, however, that tanks/healers should typically be a priority, but beggars can't be choosers /shrug.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
