[elric]

Folks, I've been thinking long and hard on Sunday night bonus raid loot distribution.

As I lead these for the express purpose of improving AH, I think some changes are in order. Namely, giving certain classes first /ran at onvis loot. ( As that will most help AH as a whole) essences will continue to be randomed, but the following items will go to classes that benefit most.

Bows-Rangers roll first, others roll if rangers pass.

Daggers with BackStab Rogues roll first

Shields Knights roll first

Anger proc items Warriors roll first

Heal foci Healers roll first

2 hers zerkers roll first

Throwing Bards, rogues, monks roll first

Runes that help with with healing Clerics roll first



I realize this is a change, but I don't lead these raids to loot up members/apps. I lead these to help AH become stronger, and win our normal raids.

What are your thoughts?


The runes thing was a hard one to put in, but that's what Fu did to beat the encounters, as better heals=more live folks to win.

Please respond with your opinion.

If I missed your class with something vital to your class doing it's job, please speak up. I only play a pally, I don't know all classes.

[Kelv]

[Hasseo75]

[Kelv]

[Kreavan]

Sucks my schedule cannot allow me to attend these as a chance at 900hp items
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[Hasseo75]

[Tasarian]

I love the idea on the bows, daggers, shields and 2hders but the other items can be a pain to classify and some people might not agree with the determination on the spot. Maybe we can get a list of things that will go to the appropriate classes before all others. Its a finite list of items that drop on the hard raids. We are talking less than 50 items total for Queen / Rott / Rallos. Heal focuses are nice for clerics but are also great for druids, paladins, and shamans. I wouldnt mind seeing knights added to the 2hander list as well. Zerkers certainly benefit the most but knights get a huge boost to a rather anemic dps by using them, and we have no shortage of knights =)

Maybe we can find out the "must have" spells from the runes too. Like we did with the chanter haste. HW3 or Brells3 are great on raids, perhaps there are some others we can classify on the list too, and dole out the runes to these classes first.

I am very excited by how quickly AH has progressed recently. Keep up the great work!! Pink helmets ftw!


Savage Cheshire
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[Divinax]

I agree with the suggestion of using DKP to bid on items. Perhaps use the model of the previous system, i.e. min bid 5 with option to increase bid to a maximum of 20.

Healing focus items surely benefit the traditional healing classes; clerics, druids and shamen. But everyone that has healing spells can benefit, like SKs , necros, rangers, beasties and even paladins. AH is not a guild like Fu. I don't think AH should adopt guild priority type loot policies. I emphasize with Elric's intentions, but in the end there are alot of AH members that come and go after a time raiding with AH. That's just the fact of life.

These unofficial raids are a bonus opportunity. When you start adding restrictions you take away that opportunity and with it the motivation to attend. Keep that up and these opportunities will disappear due to lack of interest.

[Cantinal]

Well My 2 cents worth on this is that if they are not going to be sanctioned raids then I should not have to spend my DKP to get things. That said I more like the randomed idea however giving some runes to the classes that need them is not something that is out of the realm of possiblity to me it just should be said that if dkp gets used then they are no longer 'unsanctioned raids anymore.

and i mean if we are going to go by letting more then weapons go to the cllasses that would most benefit from them then we midaswell just do that all of the time not just for these raids.

well my 2 cents worth is just that... be safe and take it for what it is worth

[Fayina]

Ok, you say the purpose of the bonus raids is to improve AH. Then what are the official raids for? Shouldn't they be for the same purpose. The overall advancement of AH.

In all seriousness you can't propose a system like this for the off nights without noticing that its just as if not more flawed on the official ones. Theres no guidelines at all except that the class is listed on the item and you got the tier. I've seen so many poorly thought out loot choices, all because they could use it and had the tier these past few weeks.

If you want AH to advance at a more progressive pace then yes something like this needs to happen. For both types of raids. It's not gonna be easy, and some people are really not gonna like it but if we ever want to see the Tower we need to maximize the available resources.

Also on a side note that could help AH that applies to the members. If you still have some horrible pieces like bazaar armor. It would benefit you and AH overall to actually go out and make an effort to get the groupable upgrades. Trust me I was 75 when I came back at the beggining of May wearing my shiny Praetorian armor from TBS, the group version not raid lol so I know it's possible to do!

So there's my 2 cents, hope it can be useful. I'd really like to see us get out of the entry SoD raids because I know we can if we just put our mind to it and worked for it.

[elric]

First off, nothing is set in stone right now. This was in discussion in the SL's area for a few days, then I posted here.

The reason I'm brought it up, is I DON"T want to see a 80% heal focus go to someone who can't heal their group or MT. I DON"T wanna see a rogue BS weapon go to a ranger, a bow to a tank to pull with, etc.

That said, I also want to keep up attendance, and encourage folks to have fun grouping with their fellow AH members.

The DKP idea is interesting, it would be a good way to burn some senior folks dkp down. That said, it could hurt attendance if newer members knew they didn't stand a chance on drop xyz if so and so is there.

Also, these are "bonus" raids. Tiers are off limits, period, in the looting scheme. DKP only matters now to check if you have enough to purchase said item on normal raids.

IMO the simplest solution is some items are for some classes first (including caster foci). Essences, and runes continue to be open to all.

Opinions?


AH is not a dictatorship, and as bonus raids are even more optional than regular raids, I am coming to the members, rather than asking the SL's/Officers opinions. So Flame me

[Fayina]

I was agreeing with you elric. I don't want to see a rogue bs weapon go to a bst, a pure dps weapon go to a tank, or a healing focus item go to a pure dmg caster like a wizard. Which is why I was saying if you want to put restrictions like this on the optional raids. They should also be placed onto the official raids. Because those are the more important ones after all considering we do those 4 days out of a week compared to one day for the optional ones.

The hard part is just gonna be deciding who gets the most synergy out of what, if you guys decide to pursue it.

[elric]

That's just it, I wanted to post here first, so folks weren't surprised by a change in the Sunday loot rules.

We need the numbers to win. Period.

That said, if we're gonna do it, loot should be done intelligently.

Oh, and I lump pallies into healers now, as pallies with their healing aa's done right, can be considered healers. I know, there are some I trust to be group healers on raids. God knows we can't be considered DPS

[Fayina]

I think what would be good for us to look at is your preliminary list. You gave some examples in your first post but the full list of what should be open to which classes would be good so we could check it out and give our opinions on it. Or if you need help making one we could post or PM them?

[Herkybevo]

Personally I think using DKP on Sunday nights is a bad idea. I see this being misused. Who is not to say that the people with high DKP just don't make an agreement with each to only use so much of their DKP( ie...they all decided to not spend more than 8dkp on that one item.). This happened when AH was doing the PoP expansion, except in reverse. For instance, the rangers would agree not to random for said weapon until the DKP was lowered. I see this happening. You would practically have the same people winning every time each week. There is a reason quite a few people cannot make most of the raids. The Sunday raids give these people a chance to gain a piece of quality gear. If DKP does start being used during Sunday night raids, then they need to become official.

DKP = /ran =
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[Kreavan]

[Wlyier]

IMHO - If it's an open raid:
- neither Tier nor DKP should be considered.
- drops should not be "awarded".
- If someone is deemed proficient in boxing, then their toons should count separately.

Some thoughts I have are:

Do a /ran on items based on number of raids attended that you haven't won (i.e. if you've attended 1 open raid without a win, then you can /ran 10, if 2 then /ran 20, etc... if you win, then you go back to 0 until next raid. Increment each participants attendance at the beginning of the raid.)

I would rather see AH "award" items in sanctioned raids to make AH stonger than in an open raid.

Open raids are generally open to anyone, for them to be a success you may need "boxers", BUT only if they are deemed proficient so as to not bring the raid down.

Accepting flames now

[Kelv]

They are not really "open" raids, it is AH only, just not during our normal business hours.

I find it interesting that people are willing to horde DKP into useless stockpiles IMO. If you raid semi-frequently you will accrue much more DKP than you will ever use as it's the Tiers that net you loot wins. I only proposed this method as I thought it would balance peoples purchase decisions against a consumable currency and provide a needed outlet for DKP spend. If it is always random people are going to be all in all the time whether it is a good item for them or not as long as it is an minor upgrade.

Consider winning loot for a group of six random which is common distribution amoung PUG's a player has a one in six chance to win or 16.67% where winning a one in thirty-six chance for a hard mode raid the random chance falls to 2.78% chance to win. Winning something like the OTB Lottery is 1.85% for one in fifty-four.

I personally don't care how the loot is handled I raid to have fun and I raid when my friends are not on for me to help or them to help me. I don't win much and I don't bid much. I will save my Tiers and buy my items strategically to develop my character much like I did for acquiring my arm slot upgrade for the focus increase on my highest damage line of nukes. This will help me, my friends, and AH.

Regardless, I don't fault people for following the rules. If we don't like the rules then evaluate them, but don't beat them up for doing what they are entitled to do.
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[Hasseo75]

Ok, flaming inc ... hehe

Yeah, these are not exactly Open raids .. in fact we doing this because:
1. We cant acomodate these raids on normal raid schedule.
2. We are having full raids and we dont want to leave ppl out on official time due doing these hard mode raids.
So typical open raids rules dont need to be exaclty applied.

Now, for those who said leave loot pure random: Whats happen if after like 2 months of raids the X guy dont get any loot yet .. then one night comes the Y guy and join his/her first raid ... and win! ... how do you think X is going to feel about it? Not happy im sure

So the Wlyier idea looks good ... keep loot random BUT give some advantage to that ppl who has attended more. We can think about it and elaborate a little more.
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[Kelv]